Power is so confusing

[pooiy2]

Hello everyone. This is my first year participating in the hobby. I've seen several displays online but I finally finished college and got a job so I can make a display on my own. I feel like I have a very general idea of what I need to do but the power supplies and wiring have got me stumped. I got myself a falcon f16v3 and am planning to use around 5000 5v bullet nodes. I live in a pretty small neighborhood so I'd assume that I wouldn't run the lights at more than 30%. I am planning to get meanwell power supplies. I believe that I will need 4 of those at 5v 60a. It is my understanding that I will also need to get fuses and of course wires. This is the part where I am losing my mind.

The PSUs have 3 output terminals. If I were planning to use the PSU at 80% capacity that would mean around 16 amps per line(I probably won't but I'd rather be safe than sorry). What awg rating would I need for this? When I look online it seems as though I would need 14 awg wire to handle that capacity but I'm not entirely sure. Also, is there any was I can split the 3 output terminals any further? For example, could I attach two wires to the same output on the PSU to spread out the load? Do I also need a fuse going from the wall outlet to my PSU and if so what kind of fuse would I use for that?

For the fuses I would assume that I get the closest fuse rating that is above my expected power draw. I plan on getting fuse blocks as opposed to inline fuse holders (mostly because fuse blocks seem easier to use). The fuse blocks that I have seen seem to be able to handle up to 100 amps so those should be fine. I was wondering if it was possible to just wire all three outputs from the PSU to the fuse block and then distribute the power from there.

The other thing that confuses me is wire type. Are all 14 awg wires created equally? Could I strip a 14 awg power extension cable and use that for both power and data or would I need to get separate wiring for power and data? Also is there a difference between a 14 awg power extension cable and 14 awg speaker wiring?

Thank you so much for the help. The setup seems very confusing but I'm excited to dive into it.

 

[Ltmup]

the three outputs are all linked together in the psu so you can use one or all three ,it does not matter. as for cable size that is a "how long is a piece of string " question. the distance you are going makes all the difference. what you are dealing with is volt drop. the further you go the more resistance,more volt drop. starting with 5v does not leave much wiggle room. check out a couple of google sites for volt drop calculators and put in a few changes in length and then cable size. that should give you a feel for how it works

 

[LeighH]

I use this wire from the power supply to the F16 & my distro boards. I also run a 5v Show.

Red 25A Automotive DC Power Cable - Sold per metre | Jaycar Electronics

High quality flexible power cable for automotive and marine applications - 25A rating - Tinned copper cable. AWG: 12

www.jaycar.com.au

Its also avaliable in black.
A fuse to the F16 on both power inputs makes sense.
I don't fuse the power to my distro boards but some do, Your choice, It certainly cant hurt only help.

 

[BAZMick]

No need to fuse between house outlet and PSU as you already have circuit breakers installed on your switch board for the whole house. If your running quite a few psu's you should spread them over more than one wall outlet. Is. No more than 2x PSU'S per outlet.

 

[pooiy2]

the three outputs are all linked together in the psu so you can use one or all three ,it does not matter. as for cable size that is a "how long is a piece of string " question. the distance you are going makes all the difference. what you are dealing with is volt drop. the further you go the more resistance,more volt drop. starting with 5v does not leave much wiggle room. check out a couple of google sites for volt drop calculators and put in a few changes in length and then cable size. that should give you a feel for how it works

So does that mean that the number of amps I'm planning to pull through each cable doesn't matter? Could I theoretically run 48 amps through 20 awg wiring if I account for the voltage drop?

 

[TerryK]

So does that mean that the number of amps I'm planning to pull through each cable doesn't matter? Could I theoretically run 48 amps through 20 awg wiring if I account for the voltage drop?

Absolutely Not! Help me a bit, that was sarcasm, yes?
Theoretically yes but the wire will get very warm, very red, very quickly.

... falcon f16v3 and am planning to use around 5000 5v bullet nodes. I live in a pretty small neighborhood so I'd assume that I wouldn't run the lights at more than 30%. I am planning to get meanwell power supplies. I believe that I will need 4 of those at 5v 60a. It is my understanding that I will also need to get fuses and of course wires. ...

Yes to the fuses. You have not mentioned which Meanwell supplies but for 5000 pixels at 30% you should be able to drive these with only 2 supplies. For white at 30% the 'ball-park' current can be calculated as 5000 * .05 * .3 = 75 Amp. The .05 is the pixel amperage at 100% white. Most individuals use .06A but WS2811 testing I've done shows them closer to .05A so I use that.

... The PSUs have 3 output terminals. If I were planning to use the PSU at 80% capacity that would mean around 16 amps per line(I probably won't but I'd rather be safe than sorry). What awg rating would I need for this? When I look online it seems as though I would need 14 awg wire to handle that capacity but I'm not entirely sure. Also, is there any was I can split the 3 output terminals any further? For example, could I attach two wires to the same output on the PSU to spread out the load? Do I also need a fuse going from the wall outlet to my PSU and if so what kind of fuse would I use for that? ...

Assuming a Meanwell 60 Amp supply with 3 output terminals, Meanwell will have the supply designed for 20 Amp per screw terminal. That rating applies to the negative terminals too, some individuals overlook that. You can connect more than a single wire to a terminal providing the current sum of the wires do not exceed the 1/3 supply maximum mentioned in the above sentence. 14 AWG will carry your planned 16 Amp although it may 'warm' a bit. As another post mentioned, voltage drop is what you will need to keep an eye on.
Yes you can distribute the supply load from the 3 positive and negative terminals, either to a buss bar or a distribution device. One only needs to insure that current through terminals do not overload any of the device terminals or maximum ratings and the inter connecting wires are sized correctly. And no, a fuse from the supply primary to the premise connection/outlet is not necessary although the supply to premise cable needs sized correctly.

... The other thing that confuses me is wire type. Are all 14 awg wires created equally? Could I strip a 14 awg power extension cable and use that for both power and data or would I need to get separate wiring for power and data? Also is there a difference between a 14 awg power extension cable and 14 awg speaker wiring? ...

No, wires are not the same. While 14 AWG is pretty much 14 AWG, there is solid or stranded and stranded is available in different strand diameter and number of strands. In this confusion there are also differences in the wire coverings based for the most part on the intended purpose; direct burial, plenum, UV, etc. Somewhat standardized in this mess is amperage capacity and resistance; ohms per foot, meter, or whatever. Extension cable can be used for a data line although it is in my opinion an over-kill. The data line is low current so anything in the 20/22 AWG range is acceptable. I prefer to keep separate power lines and the data line but that again is my opinion. The difference between extension cable and speaker cable is the outer sheath mostly. An extension cable covering needs to be resistant to piercing if walked on or if something drops on it. Or as odd as it may be, run over.

Here is what I use for power cables:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J9K7JGN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[pooiy2]

Thank you so much for your response. You've helped me clear things up and I feel a lot more confident that I know what I'm doing with my electricity.

Absolutely Not! Help me a bit, that was sarcasm, yes?
Theoretically yes but the wire will get very warm, very red, very quickly.

Yes that was sarcasm. I was just emphasizing that my question wasn't so much about what awg I would need to account for voltage drop and more of a question about ampacity.

 

[AAH]

The 3 terminals on power supplies are mainly there because that style of connector has a maximum current per terminal of 30A. Therefore for 5V 350 and 400W power supplies in particular you need to spread the load across several terminals.
Always be a bit dubious when it comes to cable sizing. Wire from China that is labelled as x AWG isn't always anywhere near that size. Also automotive cable is often specified by the outside diameter of the insulation. I always buy and specify cables in mm2 of cross sectional area. Typically 1mm2 equates to an approximate maximum capacity of 10A. Once a cable starts getting longer then you need to worry not only about it's maximum capacity but also the voltage drop. There's some good cable calculators around (I use https://www.da-share.com/calculators/ ) and there's some info in the ACL101.