Dipping my toe in - 1st prop (Large Coro Mini Tree)

[Pavle]

Hi All,

Since I've found some local stock (through this forum) and the fast turnaround from both Hanson Electronics & ELD, I should be in a position to put together my first prop for this season as well as have a tool to use with my sequencing practice in preparation for something more extensive for 2021.

My first attempt will be a 180 large coro mini tree with star topper - 105 pixels in total and I've selected a 5v setup using an RPi with the RPI-28D+ HAT

Apologies, this could end up being a long post, so now onto my queries:

wiring

I will be using 3 strings of (50 pcs/string) WS2811 5V PIXEL NODES
Plan is to daisy chain the 3 strings and cut 45 pixels from the last string - do you suggest closing this with power injection giving me two points of power (beginning & end), or do I simply terminate at this point?
I also understand I will probably need to do a couple of cut & shuts between the strands on the prop
Will I require additional power injection? I've read it can be required every 50 pixels, but seen examples that exceed this.
Power supply will be sitting at the base of the tree so very minimal distance to first pixel.

The RPI-28D+ user manual indicates that I power the RPi from the hat and I plan to use a single WS2811 output, this passes power through and powers the light string - A single SC-400-5-70 power supply will be providing the juice.

Am I on the right track here?
Do I still require additional fusing on the outputs? If yes, is this the correct calculation to work out correct sizing:
each pixel is 55mA x 105 = 5,775/1,000 = 5.8A
Assuming the above is right, so long as I select a fuse greater than 6A is that correct?

All of the above will be assembled in a waterproof enclosure and installed at the base of the tree

Mounting

The prop will be mounted on a concrete ledge (raised ~2.5m from ground level)
I haven't got it in my hands yet, but looking at LDL's YouTube review it looks like I can cable tie it to some PVC or timber and then come up with a base that gives me good stability as well as a facility to weigh it down.

Xlights

I've downloaded the latest version, installed and managed to create my model thanks to the very helpful YouTube tutorials available.
So far I've managed to create a sequence using a some of the built in effects as well as imported some that have been shared by some of you with success.

I am stuck a little bit on colour selection and how to apply it to an effect particularly effects that change tone or spectrum of colour throughout the effect duration.

Also I haven't worked out the shortcut to zoom in and out on the timeline - a lot of the tutorials and documentation isn't relevant to the latest version as you would expect and I haven't sat through many of the longer tutorials yet so perhaps these will fill in some of my queries.

Is there any tips in terms of what effects work best on what style of prop?
When coming up with sequences, do you rely solely on the on screen interface or is it best to deploy to a prop for real visualisation?
Has anyone developed a test rig of sorts to assist with this?

Deployment

I haven't got this far yet, but when I've got my finished sequence, I save a single sequence, lets say I make a 3min show. Do I then put this onto a USB and configure Falcon Player to run this show and loop?

I've printed off the 101 lighting manual as well as watched plenty of YouTube over the past few days and even just writing out this post has been very helpful for me. Hopefully I am not completely off track. Thanks for reading.

 

[scamper]

wiring

I will be using 3 strings of (50 pcs/string) WS2811 5V PIXEL NODES
Plan is to daisy chain the 3 strings and cut 45 pixels from the last string - do you suggest closing this with power injection giving me two points of power (beginning & end), or do I simply terminate at this point?
I also understand I will probably need to do a couple of cut & shuts between the strands on the prop
Will I require additional power injection? I've read it can be required every 50 pixels, but seen examples that exceed this.
Power supply will be sitting at the base of the tree so very minimal distance to first pixel.

The RPI-28D+ user manual indicates that I power the RPi from the hat and I plan to use a single WS2811 output, this passes power through and powers the light string - A single SC-400-5-70 power supply will be providing the juice.

Am I on the right track here?
Do I still require additional fusing on the outputs? If yes, is this the correct calculation to work out correct sizing:
each pixel is 55mA x 105 = 5,775/1,000 = 5.8A
Assuming the above is right, so long as I select a fuse greater than 6A is that correct?

All of the above will be assembled in a waterproof enclosure and installed at the base of the tree

Your math seems good to me on the fusing. The powering is a contentious issue as some people will tell you one thing and others another. You can with that many pixels run without powering both ends as long as you have your output turned down you probably won't notice any difference as you will get some amount of voltage drop, usually you will only notice on full white.
Personally, I would attach power to both ends as this will alleviate any perceptible difference in brightness as the led's will draw power from the nearest point (they are lazy like that). before anyone jumps in and says cut the string in the middle, it is really not necessary on this small amount of pixels as it will work from one end anyway if you lose power at the other.
The cut and shut, I am not sure what you mean there, but as far as power is concerned you should be good with the supply at the base of the prop.
As far as the fuse goes, don't go too big that the fuse is bigger than the wire etc can handle, if you are using a 6a fuse, make sure your wiring is bigger, and I would go above 7.5a rated as voltage drop will occur and cause the wire to get hot and burn before the fuse blows if you get a problem. The fuse should be the weakest link, otherwise you may as well put a nail there.
Hopefully someone else can give you advice on the rest as I haven't got into xlights or rpis for lighting.
Have fun and watch out for any signs of catching the CLAP

 

[Pavle]

The powering is a contentious issue as some people will tell you one thing and others another. You can with that many pixels run without powering both ends as long as you have your output turned down you probably won't notice any difference as you will get some amount of voltage drop, usually you will only notice on full white.
Personally, I would attach power to both ends as this will alleviate any perceptible difference in brightness as the led's will draw power from the nearest point (they are lazy like that).

Yeah, I’ll most likely be going both ends unless there is advice here to definitely use additional injection every 50 pixels.

The cut and shut, I am not sure what you mean there, but as far as power is concerned you should be good with the supply at the base of the prop.

the pixel spacing will be a little tight in some parts of the prop, so I’ll add some additional cable to increase to 200mm

I will have to work out the fuse and cable.

Have fun and watch out for any signs of catching the CLAP

thanks, but too late I’ve already started next years plan and just added a F16v3 to the kit for that

 

[vk3heg]

I will be using 3 strings of (50 pcs/string) WS2811 5V PIXEL NODES
Plan is to daisy chain the 3 strings and cut 45 pixels from the last string - do you suggest closing this with power injection giving me two points of power (beginning & end), or do I simply terminate at this point?

Yes, powering from both directions is very doable, and a lot of us do just that. With you using one power supply it will work even better.

 

[Pavle]

Yes, powering from both directions is very doable, and a lot of us do just that. With you using one power supply it will work even better.

Thanks, I received my pixels today and put them on a bench top power supply (only 2A) and one string worked great, it struggled a little once I daisy chained all 150 when powering from one end, with power on both ends I was able to get consistent light / colour, however the brightness was suffering. I will power up with the actual power supply I'll be using and see how it performs before making the final wiring config.

 

[Pavle]

Finished the wiring today and after a couple of rookie errors have managed a working string of lights ready to pop into my coro prop on the weekend.

I put together 2 stings as follows:

• Pigtail -> 34 LED -> +100mm -> 34 LED -> +100mm -> 17 LED -> Pigtail
• Pigtail -> 20 LED -> +1500mm -> Pigtail

I've got power and data at the start and power injection at the end and it seems to be functioning well using a Hanson Electronics Pixel Tester

I've also rigged up a weather resistant storage container / switch box for my power supply and RPi

Where is best to discuss sequences and how to run the light effects? I'm happy to follow a tutorial, just haven't found one that is suitable yet.
I am still working my way through the 130 pages of FPP manual

Thanks to @LawrenceDriveLights in the chat last night I managed to transfer a sequence over to my RPi, but I still have a lot to learn regarding how to configure FPP and how schedules function for turning on and off among other things.

Can the RPi be shutdown when you aren't running any sequences?
Assume the same for the power supply?
Once all the content is on the device, do you need to access it again if you're just running the same content day in day out?
If I plan to run a simple sequence that is essentially just effects rather than a full show, do I follow the same show config or is it best to use the run in background feature / run effect feature?

Thank you

 

[OzAz]

1. Yes, but if you're using it to schedule there's probably some trickery in making sure it has the right time when it comes back on
2. Yes (as above if also powering the Pi)
3. No
4. I'd do the normal showconfig even if you only have 1 or 2 basic animation sequences, if for no other reason than to learn how it works. Plus it will be easier to add more sequences if you felt like it.

 

[Pavle]

Thanks @OzAz

 

[Pavle]

powered everything up tonight running Falcon Player on an RPi and the RPI-28D successfully.

The sequence I had on my USB played and all the pixels were blinking along accordingly

My only hiccup was there was insufficient power delivered to the RPI-28D to power up the pi.
As soon as I added in the original power supply directly into the pi, I was in business. It appears to be voltage drop, but that's surprising as the distance from power supply to controller is ~30cm and I thought the cabling would be sufficient.

The power feeding the pixels was delivered through the RPI-28D and this appeared to have ample juice for the full string - I didn't connect the power injection at the end as I left the pigtail for this on my desk at work

I spent a few hours this afternoon consuming videos from Canispater Christmas and this was very helpful in clearing up a few of my queries.

 

[vk3heg]

The power feeding the pixels was delivered through the RPI-28D and this appeared to have ample juice for the full string - I didn't connect the power injection at the end as I left the pigtail for this on my desk at work

You have Alan's 70Amp psu. So it's got enough grunt to do 150 LED's. What I would do is only run data from the PI directly, as it has limited power support. Then run all the power for the LED's from the PSU.

I did this last year and didn't have any issues. I was powering 500 5V, and 360 12V leds from a converted computer psu (30Amp 5v, 20Amp 12v).

 

[Pavle]

What I would do is only run data from the PI directly, as it has limited power support. Then run all the power for the LED's from the PSU.

Appreciate the suggestion, I’ll give this a go. Thanks

 

[Pavle]

picked up the tree today and met @Troy ELD - thanks for showing me some of your setup, all adds to getting a nice perspective about the work that is behind a pixel display.

I’m just about ready to put our tree out in the yard

First run

is it too early to turn the lights on?

 

[Troy ELD]

Great to see it all lit up Paul!

 

[vk3heg]

I’m just about ready to put our tree out in the yard
First run
is it too early to turn the lights on?

Looks good, and a good starting point for your first go. You will want to expand and grow your setup next year. Just don't leave it until the last minute.

 

[Pavle]

I re-wired as per you suggestion @vk3heg and runs great - powering everything with the single power supply with direct power feed to the pixels rather than through Alans board. I also replaced the power and earth cables from power supply to the board to a slightly larger AWG just to be sure.

Planning for next year is already underway, is there a good time to order pixels or it doesn't matter as long as it's well before November?
Is there a general rule around price breaks? I'll probably be aiming for ~1,000 to 2,000 for next year