Lighting in and around water?

[Skigardeneer]

Hi Everyone!, Shaun from Bundaberg, this site looks to be an incredible place to learn about LED light displays, well done!…

I am looking to begin my lighting journey now for 2023 with a blank, watery canvas. My little guy is 2 years old and just loves the lights around town, so the lights are for him, the local community and and people who will be camping on site commencing later this year.

The display will be on our private competition waterski lake beside the Isis highway 20 minutes out of town… would be curious about any specific information/thoughts relating to displays in and around water and how to power it safely… maybe from batteries or generator?

I have been thinking about a Christmas tree located on, in or near the water.

A couple of years ago I scored a lightweight but sturdy stayed aluminium antenna assembly at the local metal recycler.

It has a 6m integrated ladder in the first stage and 2 additional 6m pipe stages that telescope up, might that be used for either a dumb tree or a mega tree?… Is it too big to be practical at the beginning at full height? Can anything be done to protect it from lightening?

We have a spot overlooking an area of water from 5m above, and it might also be fun to paddle through a display using Kayaks, SUP etc.?

In the future the lighting system may also see service in other configurations for night water ski event and other holidays throughout the year…

Photos below are of the lake on a starry night just begging for some lights of it’s own, and a daylight photo of the general area to left of the boat course where an on water display could go?

Looking forward to being part of your Christmas light community, Shaun.

 

[djgra79]

Welcome to ACL Shaun!
Obviously electricity and water aren't the best of friends. Most of us use lights & equipment that could survive out in the rain during summer storms etc so I guess this isn't really any different to your situation. The main concern would be the infrustructure of the show behind it EG power suppliers, controllers and cabling. If you intend to build something floating on the water, you'd need to make absolutely sure that in case of severe weather or failure of some type that if your gear ends up in the drink (particularly whilst live) that it is 110% safe and built to do so.
I'll let others chime in on their own thoughts and feedback but we all try to keep visitor (and our own) safety at the forefront of our minds when desiging, building and installing our displays, so that they can be enjoyed for years to come for everyone.

 

[Skigardeneer]

Welcome to ACL Shaun!
Obviously electricity and water aren't the best of friends. Most of us use lights & equipment that could survive out in the rain during summer storms etc so I guess this isn't really any different to your situation. The main concern would be the infrustructure of the show behind it EG power suppliers, controllers and cabling. If you intend to build something floating on the water, you'd need to make absolutely sure that in case of severe weather or failure of some type that if your gear ends up in the drink (particularly whilst live) that it is 110% safe and built to do so.
I'll let others chime in on their own thoughts and feedback but we all try to keep visitor (and our own) safety at the forefront of our minds when desiging, building and installing our displays, so that they can be enjoyed for years to come for everyone.

 

[Skigardeneer]

Hi Graham, thanks for your reply

Yes, safety is top of mind, lights are meant to add some joy to the world not the opposite…

Joining ACL is my try at learning the questions to ask before doing anything, you know, the old angels fearing to tread…

Have wondered about trying to stay low voltage using batteries and avoid high volatage AC power?

Shaun.

 

[TerryK]

First, let me mention that I'm not familiar with the electrical code(s) in Australia even though I suspect there are various similarities with the US NEC. With that in mind, I'm fairly certain you'll need to work with a certified/bonded Australian electrician and perhaps electrical engineer. Depends probably just how much of and exactly what you mentioned you have implemented.

I do not think batteries are practical. Amperage load and maintaining a charge are the 2 largest obstacles I think. And batteries aren't necessarily any safer. I know an individual that can be shocked from a 12 Volt car battery. Generators aren't practical either I think; noise, exhaust, maintenance, etc.

So with the exception of anything floating around out on the water you will likely need to implement AC GFCI power sources. Keeping everything sealed from moisture will be a significant challenge. Depending upon changing water levels, I'd suggest keeping the AC as far away from the lake as possible and probably elevated a bit for water run-off. Bury the power and data to the lights and since it will probably be a bit long, separate the power runs from the data runs (long parallel power and data runs in close proximity are never good).

 

[merryoncherry]

Agree w/ TerryK, batteries are not practical and GFCI/RCD would be required. As would be true anywhere outdoors. A generator would be noisy, sure, but then again so are water ski boats.

I'm not sure "being around water" is a big concern here. All the pixel stuff should be treated as if it's "around" water because most of it is, on occasion.
Electrical can be worked out in whatever environment, so figure out the mechanical first. The tower is interesting, would be a lot easier to work with on shore rather than in the water. (Any manual maintenance will be easier on shore.) Lightning is an issue, if the pixels are on it when it hits there is a good chance something will be damaged, though most current will go down the antenna itself. Whether things are easily removed or not has to be part of the planning... if you can't remove it be prepared to repair it in place.

The tall grass all over is an issue that would prevent you from doing what I do in my front yard... Having everything on some sort of platform, tower, or scaffold at water's edge would be the easiest, nothing would get lost, mowed, stepped on, etc.

 

[TerryK]

Couple thoughts on the tower I overlooked. If I understand correctly, fully extended it's 18 meter. That would be a sizable MEGA tree. What I see as problems are the length of the strands and the radius at the bottom to have it look 'decent'. Would need guyed I suspect which could be indirectly built into the strands (steel cable to take the strand weight perhaps). Again to look reasonable the number of strands and strand spacing at the bottom and how that would relate to the topper size. Power injection probably would need to be at both the bottom and top of every strand.

Regarding lightning, little can be done to protect against a direct hit. Being aluminum and if 18 meter probably rather heavy-duty, the goal (and hope) is for the tower to direct and carry the charge to earth and stay out of your lighting hardware. That means that your hardware needs to stay a bit lower than the top of the tower so any lightning hits the tower first. It wouldn't hurt to have something a little 'pointy' at the very top. The tower base also should have a good earth connection. At 18 meter even if installed with a concrete base it wouldn't hurt to have a ground rod wired to bypass the concrete. And to give an example, AEP (American Electric Power) is in the process of installing 80 foot galvanized high tension (384KV I think) towers in my area. Each tower has a gound connection at the bottom connecting the tower base to earth around the concrete (the concrete so they tell me goes 20 feet down).
These steps will protect fairly well against a near strike with any possible side discharges hitting the tower. And in any case I would suggest smart receivers with the idea that any lightning damage would be in the pixels and smart receiver(s).

 

[Skigardeneer]

First, let me mention that I'm not familiar with the electrical code(s) in Australia even though I suspect there are various similarities with the US NEC. With that in mind, I'm fairly certain you'll need to work with a certified/bonded Australian electrician and perhaps electrical engineer. Depends probably just how much of and exactly what you mentioned you have implemented.

I do not think batteries are practical. Amperage load and maintaining a charge are the 2 largest obstacles I think. And batteries aren't necessarily any safer. I know an individual that can be shocked from a 12 Volt car battery. Generators aren't practical either I think; noise, exhaust, maintenance, etc.

So with the exception of anything floating around out on the water you will likely need to implement AC GFCI power sources. Keeping everything sealed from moisture will be a significant challenge. Depending upon changing water levels, I'd suggest keeping the AC as far away from the lake as possible and probably elevated a bit for water run-off. Bury the power and data to the lights and since it will probably be a bit long, separate the power runs from the data runs (long parallel power and data runs in close proximity are never good).

Thanks Terry, this is a great response, just the sort of issues I was hoping to shed light on.

The thought of AC is scary, that was why I was wondering about the lower voltage battery possibilities. The 18m super-mega tree is just aspirational for a while yet, but I put it out there to see if my suspicions about level of difficulty were correct, I would likely set it up with just the first (still large) 6m stage to start. I guess Generators bring the same AC issues too.

Cheers, Shaun.