Mega Tree and Tie Down Wire/Rope or Anchor Wire/Rope Size/Strength?

[damona]

Given all the wind this year wonder what strength of wire/rope for what size mege tree with x number of lights.

Height:
Number of Strings: e.g. 16
180deg or 360deg Tree:
Wire/Rope Details:
Max Wind Strength:

Just want to make sure it does not come down?

 

[lizardking]

Re: Mega Tree and Tie/Rope Down Wire or Anchor Wire/Rope Size/Strength?

Height:2.5 m from top of base [/size]Number of Strings:24180 or 360:180Wire/Rope Details:noneMax Wind Strength:??
1.5 inch 2 mm wall round pipe pole
no guy wires
pixels held on the tree with boscoyo pixel strip holders
reasonable winds about 50klms/hr at worse this year no problems
base made with 6ft trampoline base

 

[fasteddy]

What you need is two tiers of guy wire support, one about 1/2 way and the other at the top. This stops the pole from taking the flex and strain 1/2 way down if just having support at the top only.

 

[damona]

First Reply None.
Second Reply Two Sets. Very Different.

 

[BundyRoy]

The difference is there is no simple formula (that I know of) for determining the requirements. It is a function of pole strength, height, weight hanging off the pole, wind loads/speed and your willingness to take risks/accept damage (to your gear and the neighbours). Some locations in town are protected from the wind, so even if the forecast is 70 km/hr winds then the tree may not experience this due to obstructions (buildings, fences etc) blocking the wind.

I personally would make the pole strong, have it mounted in the ground and have guy wires from either wire rope or wire. I would not use rope as it can stretch and is hard to keep tight. 4 guy wires only work if all 4 are reasonably tight. If one is lose or breaks then you effectively have no guy wires.

I know you are just trying to get a feel for what others have used, but what might work in a wind protected yard may not work in your yard.

 

[fasteddy]

First Replay None.
Second Reply Two Sets. Very Different.

I say 2 sets of guy wires due to the fact that we can get some strong winds and in fact I broke an aluminium pole during 70km + winds and it broke just below 1/2 way down due to the stress put on the centre of the pole from the guy wires attached 3/4 of the way up.
After that I went overboard and use a steel pole with 2 sets of guy wires. my tree is approx. 7 metres tall and a 2D ray tree and was rock solid after the changes even with the strongest winds

 

[Bill Ellick]

To me, this is not a clear and dry (easy to answer) question due to the number of variables involved.


I do agree with Fast Eddy on using 2 sets of guy wires when you can and if you live in an area with high winds although it is not always possible especially if like me you use a winch to raise the tree topper. There are ways to get around that though if necessary.
I use a 21 foot 1-1/2" galvanized pipe for a pole so it is very strong to begin with and the "problem" with center flex in higher winds is minimal for my setup.


I use 4 guy wires rather than 3 partly because of no center guys and I like things to be solid. My tree has taken 80 MPH gusts of wind and didn't even sway so I know it can stand things.


Another point worthy of note is the anchors that you use for the guy wires. You can use 1/2" steel cable for guys but if you are using a simple thing like a 12" piece of rod for the anchor, then why bother! Your anchor "should" match up with your guy wire for pull out strength along with having a rating to take the anticipated load.
Some people like to install the anchors "in-line" with the guy wire and others swear by installing the anchor at a 90 degree angle to the guy wire. It can more depend on what type or anchor you are going to use and there are sources for showing how to calculate the anchor and installation method so I am not going to go into that.


Your "guy wire" choice is also a point to consider as it is just as critical as the anchors. There is such a big difference between using plastic coated clothesline versus galvanized wire guy line so again you have to consider what you want to use along with the weather and winds that you get where you live.


Something else to touch on is the method of attachment for connecting the guy wires to both the anchors and to whatever attachment point you are using on the pole or tree topper.
Tying off rope, clothesline, or smaller size types of guy line probably works for most but it should always be considered that no matter how well done, knots WILL loosen up unless you use several at each position. So they should be checked periodically during the season especially if you live in an area of windy conditions.


Any form of actual wire (such as galvanized guy wire) needs to be connected using cable clamps or wire rope clips as they are made specifically for that purpose. You CAN NOT tie actual wire and have it hold! Also using thimbles can help lengthen the life span of guy wire by preventing crimping and/or broken strands.
Always use 2 clamps at each attachment point as one clip can "slide" or slip if not tightened down very well.


Here is a "generic" page to show different parts for guy wires and accessories:
http://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=660


I have my guy wires all prebuilt with thimbles at each end. I leave the guy wire attached to my tree topper as it stays attached to the pole.
I also have turnbuckles attached at the ground attachment points to allow me to tension the guy wires as well as straighten the pole once it is stood up in the ground sleeve.
My anchors are also permanently buried to just below ground level. They have a thimble style end to them (they are actual anchors for telephone poles) so I can use a quick link:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/National-Hardware-1-4-in-Zinc-Plated-Quick-Link-3150BC-1-4-QUICK-LINK-ZN/204606888?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D25H-Hardware%7c&gclid=CLTljOSQ8skCFYEdHwod8pgHOA&gclsrc=aw.ds


to hook the turnbuckle too. I use plain old soda cans that I cut the opening end off of and paint them a dark blue to cover the buried anchors in the off season and it keeps the grass and dirt off as well and you can't really see the can unless you are standing almost on top of one. I use the same can method to cover my center pole buried sleeve which is just below ground level as well.


So that is my "2 cents worth" on the subject. Always seems that nothing is as simple as we want it to be but with some searching, asking questions, and study, there is always a way to determine what is "right" for each of our situations. There certainly is no problem that an answer can't be found for (well at least in this field of holiday decorating I would think!).


I would like to say that just as an FYI, I have been doing electrical work for almost 50 years now (God I'm getting old!) and have set many power poles, anchors, and guy cables just to give some reference as to my "knowledge" and experience with them. I don't claim to be the most knowledgeable but I do have many years of hands on experience to rely on.

Hope all have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

 

[damona]

I am using 60mm (5mm thick poll) structural aluminium 6061 which I hope will be strong enough. Aluminium Scaffolding is 48.41mm (4.47mm thick). So I hope this is stronger than what FastEddy used before converting to steel.

 

[bdt]

For the last 3 years I used chainlink fence top rail for my pole and 2 sets of guide wires, 6 on the top and 3 in the middle. We had some huge winds last year and the ground didn’t freeze so the wind eventually loosened my 3’ stakes and over went the tree. Good news is it gave me an opportunity to build a new pixel tree. I used a 2.5” pipe and put a sleeve in the ground 3’. I built the bottom by bending ½ angle iron for the circle with ¾’ square tubing for the braces between the circle and a 2’ sleeve that the pole slides in. It's got to be 10x as strong as my old tree, I did add 3 guide wires a couple feet down from the top, it keeps the tree from wiggling, and it gives me peace of mind. A few weeks ago we had some strong winds and the tree wasn’t swaying at all. Ill try and take some pictures tomorrow, but we have about 12" of snow so it might be hard to see.

 

[Bill Ellick]

I was sitting here thinking about this and just read the post by bdt and realized that there is actually a new form of problem that will become apparent soon with the use of newer "pixel trees".

With it seems quite a few people building flat pixel trees (or a 180 degree tree as it seems to be called most) you get into the problem of having a large flat sail much like a sailboat sail out in the yard. While not such a large problem if mounted against a building or flat surface, this could present troubles in windy conditions if out in more open areas with the wind wanting to twist the tree and/or try to push it over.

It doesn't appear that many of the ones I have seen in pictures look like they used a center pole or much for guy wires but then a picture is very tough to tell from any distance.

I am curious as to how people who do a "180 tree" secure them and what if any troubles they might have had or seen with wind effects?
There are certainly methods and ways to secure these type of trees without a lot of trouble but somewhat different methods of guy wires and supports.

 

[damona]

Pxiel strips would catch thw most wind followed by pixel mounting strips followed by just pixels.

 

[damona]

I thought I would bring this alive again. So people have created Mega Tress for this year can comment.

 

[ShimmerNZ]

5.5m PVC Megatree made with nodes
2 sets of guy wires 3 from top and 2 half way down.


I would never use PVC pipe for one this size again, but having plenty of guy wires now has her rock solid.

 

[uncledan]

No guy wires here. Beefed up portable hole. Lighted length is approximately 18 feet with 9 ft base.

 

[damona]

Guide Wires inside the lights or outside the lights is best? I suppose outside is easy for raising the lights up the poll?