Basic Lighting principals and Advatek help needed.

[Ash Brown]

Hi from Perth

Life got in the way last year and didn't manage to get a display up, but have been designing a lot with Xlights. I have made the decision to start with a very small display this year and expand next year. I know i have left it very late!
This year plan was to go with a 12V Pixlite16 plug and play and complete my house outline with some extras & with maybe a 4 arches.
With the Advatek questions I have spoken to the Advatek rep but have run into some more questions while designing that i will ask when i speak to him next as well.
Please correct me if this is wrong i am really winging this and trying to get my head around everything.

1. when speaking to the Advatek Rep, He mentioned the setup can handle 100 pixels per output (or is this 100 LEDs Per output)?,
Looking at the specs I assume this is only because of volt drop? I plan on using strip lighting and lets say they're 20 pixels per/m, well a 5m length is 100 pixels. Is this the maximum length i could get from one output without injecting power along the node?
2. If this is the case am i right in thinking if i feed 2 x 5m strips from the middle I can then have a 10m 200 pixels per output ?
3. for next year. When looking at an average display of lets say 1600 pixels, how many controllers would someone be running. IE outline of a house, 4 arches, 4 spiral trees and 1 mega tree
4. why is it that the Pixlite16 specs for just the control board say 1020 pixels / output but the plug and play version says only 340 ?
5 is there any examples of what i can do with one controller as a starting point

Thanks all appreciate as much help as i can get.

 

[djgra79]

Hi Ash. I don't use Advatek boards so cannot comment on their specs.
But for point 1 a pixel is defined as a light that is controlled by 3 channels - usually red, green & blue LEDs. Now for strip lights at 12v, it is most likely that each pixel is actually 3 of these LEDs grouped together to form one pixel. Controllers are always quoted as number of PIXELS (groups of 3 controllable channels) per output not the physical number of LEDs you might see.
The 101 manual is a great resource on this info if you have not already seen it: https://auschristmaslighting.com/threads/auschristmaslighting-101-manual.1889/

 

[Nojoy]

Hi Ash, I recently bought the Pixlite 16 v2 P&P as well and have gone through the same learning curve.

1(a). The P&P 16 can pass data to up to 510 channels from a single Output in its default state. This means up to 170 RGB pixels (3 channels per pixel). There is an Expansion Mode that can be set if you are only using 3 wire pixels (no clock wire), but this is outside what I'll go into here.
1(b). The P&P 16 comes with 4Amp miniblade fuses pre-installed for each of the 16 outputs. These can be user replaced with up to 7.5A miniblade fuses per Output.
1(c) A WS2811 Pixel strip with 20 pixels per/m over 5m does use 100 pixels (300 channels).
1(d) A strip of 100 pixels running at 100% brightness on full white draws ~66.6Watts and each node draws ~6milliamps (0.06A) per node. So strip of 100 draws ~6Amps at 100% white. Meaning the 4Amp fuse can only handle ~65 pixels at 100%.
1(e). In the Advatek Assistant application, you can set the maximum brightness of each String in the LEDs tab by ticking the Advanced tickbox and selecting the Advanced button.
1(f). To run 100 pixels from that Output without replacing the fuse, the Output brightness needs to be restricted to 65% or less ((0.06*0.65)*100).
1(g). All of the above ignores power requirements. The P&P16 comes with a Meanwell RSP-320-12v PSU pre-installed. Using the common 85% max draw buffer, this means you can have ~272Watts being drawn by the P&P (about 5W buffer) and pixels.
1(h). Your 5m Strip of 100 pixels draws ~66.6Watts at 100% white. If you are already restricting brightness per the above to 65%, this reduces the draw to 43.29W. A single Output can handle this, but the entire draw across the PSU has to be below 272W. You can use online calculators or a multimeter to measure the voltage drop depending on the AWG of the wire, and construction of materials.

2(a). Each Output on the P&P 16 can do up to 510 channels (170 pixels) at maximum. Better to spread the two 100 pixel strips over two Outputs.
2(b). If you keep the 4A fuse, 170 pixels would require Brightness at or below 39%.
2(c). The data sent from the controller out to the pixels corrupts over distance. At 10m, you may see some performance issues (flickering or non-responsive pixels). Adding a null pixel into the mix (3 channels) would 'refresh' the data signal.

3(a). P&P 16 can theoretically output to 2720 Pixels in default mode (170 pixels * 16 Outputs). All pixels need to be of the same pixel type.
3(b). Amperage and Wattage will determine how many pixels per Output you can run from the P&P16 itself within the 2720 maximum.
3(c). I am running 1037 live pixels over 11 Outputs this year, using two MeanWell 320w PSU. House outline, 3 minitrees, 1 mega tree (25pixels * 14 strands), and 4 * 1m arches.
3(d). Leaves 5 spare Outputs, with plenty of room on each of the 11 employed Output (ranges from 64 to 128 pixels this year per Output) for future growth.

4(a). As Advatek ship the P&P16 with a single PSU and 4A fuses, they will only warrant a reasonable range of Pixels.
4(b). Within the P&P16 you will notice that Advatek use a separate power PCB with the PixLite16 v2 PCB. I think this setup actually limits the Outputs further compared to building your box yourself using just the v2 board. Others may have more experience on this.
4(c). In default mode the P&P16 can only output to 510 channels (170 pixels). In expanded mode, the Clock wire turns into a second data output wire, meaning you can expand each output to 340 pixels (170*2). But power needs to be considered as well.

5. See xLights model below for what ive described above over 11 Outputs.

 

[spazmanaught]

Hi Ash,
I'm a little confused with what you asked so I'll tell you how I have my advateks set up. See if that answers the qty per output etc.

I run all mine in expanded mode.

I have 2 x long range MKII's. These go out to 16 x receivers (which gives me 32 outputs) which I use for many different things. 5v & 12v and string lengths of 10 pixels to the largest of 85 (in the string type). I also have heaps of strips (I started using them before I was told they aren't the best, although so far I've had little issue) with lengths up to 6m. On the Long Range receivers the most I have connected to these is on one receiver I have 4 x 5m 12v strips @60p/m giving 300 pixels per string. This gives me 1200 pixels in expanded mode from the 2 outputs or 2400 from the 4 expanded outputs on that one receiver. So far no issues.

I also have a MKII standard which I will use for my 2021 mega tree but for 2020 I'm using 8 outputs (16 actual outputs) in 5v for candy canes and a few bits and pieces and the other 16 outputs for 14 x 12v strips (they are 2 x 3m daisy chained together @60p/m) to a total of 360 per strip which is 720 pixels per output in expanded mode. The other 2 out puts run my 2 x 12v Singing Trees @229 pixels (from extremelightingdisplays.com.au). So for the 12v 8 outputs (16 in expanded) I run 5498 pixels in total. My understanding is I can use up to 510 pixels per output in expanded. I've had no dramas with this so far in all my testing (I only run it all @20%). I haven't seen any voltage drop off @20% but the singing faces @30% struggled to do white fully, so 20% seems to be the sweet spot for my 12v for what I have. I'm still doing injection but just wanted to see how it went on it's own. None of my 5v have lots of pixels to cause any issue.

So from what I have done and understand in normal mode you can connect 1020 per output. The specs on the rugged definitely are different though:

• Standard Outputs: 16
• Expanded Outputs: 32
• RGB Pixels/Output: 340

Maybe they limit the number of pixels due to keeping the power down?

Is there a reason you want to go the rugged? When I looked earlier in the year I couldn't justify the extra cost for the power-supply and box. I'm sure they are great but I used the coin saved to get some of the TACTIX waterproof boxes.

Anyway good luck. Plenty of people here who can help that's for sure!!!

 

[Ash Brown]

Hi Ash, I recently bought the Pixlite 16 v2 P&P as well and have gone through the same learning curve.

1(a). The P&P 16 can pass data to up to 510 channels from a single Output in its default state. This means up to 170 RGB pixels (3 channels per pixel). There is an Expansion Mode that can be set if you are only using 3 wire pixels (no clock wire), but this is outside what I'll go into here.
1(b). The P&P 16 comes with 4Amp miniblade fuses pre-installed for each of the 16 outputs. These can be user replaced with up to 7.5A miniblade fuses per Output.
1(c) A WS2811 Pixel strip with 20 pixels per/m over 5m does use 100 pixels (300 channels).
1(d) A strip of 100 pixels running at 100% brightness on full white draws ~66.6Watts and each node draws ~6milliamps (0.06A) per node. So strip of 100 draws ~6Amps at 100% white. Meaning the 4Amp fuse can only handle ~65 pixels at 100%.
1(e). In the Advatek Assistant application, you can set the maximum brightness of each String in the LEDs tab by ticking the Advanced tickbox and selecting the Advanced button.
1(f). To run 100 pixels from that Output without replacing the fuse, the Output brightness needs to be restricted to 65% or less ((0.06*0.65)*100).
1(g). All of the above ignores power requirements. The P&P16 comes with a Meanwell RSP-320-12v PSU pre-installed. Using the common 85% max draw buffer, this means you can have ~272Watts being drawn by the P&P (about 5W buffer) and pixels.
1(h). Your 5m Strip of 100 pixels draws ~66.6Watts at 100% white. If you are already restricting brightness per the above to 65%, this reduces the draw to 43.29W. A single Output can handle this, but the entire draw across the PSU has to be below 272W. You can use online calculators or a multimeter to measure the voltage drop depending on the AWG of the wire, and construction of materials.

2(a). Each Output on the P&P 16 can do up to 510 channels (170 pixels) at maximum. Better to spread the two 100 pixel strips over two Outputs.
2(b). If you keep the 4A fuse, 170 pixels would require Brightness at or below 39%.
2(c). The data sent from the controller out to the pixels corrupts over distance. At 10m, you may see some performance issues (flickering or non-responsive pixels). Adding a null pixel into the mix (3 channels) would 'refresh' the data signal.

3(a). P&P 16 can theoretically output to 2720 Pixels in default mode (170 pixels * 16 Outputs). All pixels need to be of the same pixel type.
3(b). Amperage and Wattage will determine how many pixels per Output you can run from the P&P16 itself within the 2720 maximum.
3(c). I am running 1037 live pixels over 11 Outputs this year, using two MeanWell 320w PSU. House outline, 3 minitrees, 1 mega tree (25pixels * 14 strands), and 4 * 1m arches.
3(d). Leaves 5 spare Outputs, with plenty of room on each of the 11 employed Output (ranges from 64 to 128 pixels this year per Output) for future growth.

4(a). As Advatek ship the P&P16 with a single PSU and 4A fuses, they will only warrant a reasonable range of Pixels.
4(b). Within the P&P16 you will notice that Advatek use a separate power PCB with the PixLite16 v2 PCB. I think this setup actually limits the Outputs further compared to building your box yourself using just the v2 board. Others may have more experience on this.
4(c). In default mode the P&P16 can only output to 510 channels (170 pixels). In expanded mode, the Clock wire turns into a second data output wire, meaning you can expand each output to 340 pixels (170*2). But power needs to be considered as well.

5. See xLights model below for what ive described above over 11 Outputs.View attachment 15308

Thank you so much. That makes a lot more sense to do with current draw, think building my own box might be a better option. That way I can dual PSU. One question if you don’t mind.
The Xlights layout you say is 11 outputs. Can you please tell me quickly what strands those outputs are running. This is one thing that I need to get my head around. Thanks again

 

[Ash Brown]

Hi Ash,
I'm a little confused with what you asked so I'll tell you how I have my advateks set up. See if that answers the qty per output etc.

I run all mine in expanded mode.

I have 2 x long range MKII's. These go out to 16 x receivers (which gives me 32 outputs) which I use for many different things. 5v & 12v and string lengths of 10 pixels to the largest of 85 (in the string type). I also have heaps of strips (I started using them before I was told they aren't the best, although so far I've had little issue) with lengths up to 6m. On the Long Range receivers the most I have connected to these is on one receiver I have 4 x 5m 12v strips @60p/m giving 300 pixels per string. This gives me 1200 pixels in expanded mode from the 2 outputs or 2400 from the 4 expanded outputs on that one receiver. So far no issues.

I also have a MKII standard which I will use for my 2021 mega tree but for 2020 I'm using 8 outputs (16 actual outputs) in 5v for candy canes and a few bits and pieces and the other 16 outputs for 14 x 12v strips (they are 2 x 3m daisy chained together @60p/m) to a total of 360 per strip which is 720 pixels per output in expanded mode. The other 2 out puts run my 2 x 12v Singing Trees @229 pixels (from extremelightingdisplays.com.au). So for the 12v 8 outputs (16 in expanded) I run 5498 pixels in total. My understanding is I can use up to 510 pixels per output in expanded. I've had no dramas with this so far in all my testing (I only run it all @20%). I haven't seen any voltage drop off @20% but the singing faces @30% struggled to do white fully, so 20% seems to be the sweet spot for my 12v for what I have. I'm still doing injection but just wanted to see how it went on it's own. None of my 5v have lots of pixels to cause any issue.

So from what I have done and understand in normal mode you can connect 1020 per output. The specs on the rugged definitely are different though:

• Standard Outputs: 16
• Expanded Outputs: 32
• RGB Pixels/Output: 340

Maybe they limit the number of pixels due to keeping the power down?

Is there a reason you want to go the rugged? When I looked earlier in the year I couldn't justify the extra cost for the power-supply and box. I'm sure they are great but I used the coin saved to get some of the TACTIX waterproof boxes.

Anyway good luck. Plenty of people here who can help that's for sure!!!

Thank you this has made me think I should probably build my own and dual power supply for my first control box. This will give me a good starting point for next year. Shouldn’t really take me long looking at what’s involved.
Now just to research the long range vs the standard and make some decisions

 

[Ash Brown]

Hi Ash. I don't use Advatek boards so cannot comment on their specs.
But for point 1 a pixel is defined as a light that is controlled by 3 channels - usually red, green & blue LEDs. Now for strip lights at 12v, it is most likely that each pixel is actually 3 of these LEDs grouped together to form one pixel. Controllers are always quoted as number of PIXELS (groups of 3 controllable channels) per output not the physical number of LEDs you might see.
The 101 manual is a great resource on this info if you have not already seen it: https://auschristmaslighting.com/threads/auschristmaslighting-101-manual.1889/

Thanks Graham, definitely read the 101 front to back and refer to it when I find something I don’t understand. I do understand the 3 leds per pixel.
It’s more around power draw and pixel Performance I was struggling with and at what stage should I be injecting also with how many strands I could have on a output without injection.

 

[Nojoy]

Thank you so much. That makes a lot more sense to do with current draw, think building my own box might be a better option. That way I can dual PSU. One question if you don’t mind.
The Xlights layout you say is 11 outputs. Can you please tell me quickly what strands those outputs are running. This is one thing that I need to get my head around. Thanks again

Everything limited to 30% to avoid annoying neighbours.
O1: 109 ws2811 bullets; left house outline; Powered through p&p.
O2: 66 ws2811 bullets; top gable; powered through p&p.
O3: 100 WS2811 bullets; roof gable; powered by 2nd psu;
O4: 128 ws2811 bullets with null; minitree 1&2; 2nd psu;
O5: 64 ws2811 bullets; minitree 3; 2nd psu.
O6: 100 ws2811 strip (2*5m); 4 arches; 2nd psu.
O7: 140 ws2811 bullets with null; garage; 2nd psu.
O8: 100 ws2811 bullets; columns 1-4 on flat tree; p&p;
O9: 100 ws2811 bullets; columns 5-8; p&p;
O10: 100 ws2811 bullets; columns 9-12; p&p;
O11: 50 ws2811 bullets; columns 13-14; p&p.