Ok, I've done tons of reading, tons of reading, oh and tons of reading. Soo. I'm looking at dumb rgb and pixels. Soooooo I will need... For the dumbs. A dongle which seems to go for about 80$ If I read right. David sells a 24 channel for 129$ or a 48 for 199$, which will run 6 or 12 dumbs. The renard 64 with dc can also run dumbs is that correct? I estimate about 270$ to build a full 64 channel renard with all the ssr included. $100 for the main board, and approx 20$ for each ssr. That's without also factoring in time to build the suckers. I would still need the dongle... Pixels to me are the no brainer. The Joshua system, initially looking at a p2, but will look to add either a second, or look at getting the 12 in the future. I know there is the sandrive which if you build is $109 plus $20 postage, but I would rather look local, Aussie is local. Is the Joshua system looking at being able to run dumbs? Reason I ask, the cost per channel to run a dumb is phenomenal, especially if you're looking at maybe 50 lights off a number of the channels. The renard48lsd may be cheaper for short strings but I can't source the boards in Aussie by the looks of it, and again is only 12 dumb channels. I want to start getting my parts together soonish, I have a fair idea of my display, but some of it is dependant on whether I go just straight pixels, or try and mix the two. I just can't seem to justify the expense of the dumb system though. Am I missing something? The other thing is, renard can run, well renard, or dmx. What is the difference in the running? I know dmx is the industry standard, but how does the ren system differ, and why does it offer the option, especially if the dmx is standard? If you're using the Joshua system, would you then be advised to run it in dmx? Sorry there are tons of questions, but these are things I'm stuck on.