Hello Everyone !!

[IzzyEddy]

I am new to the board.

My current setup that I am looking to change is:

- Upper House - 5 strings of 25 C9 Twinkle Bulbs (Total of 125) - would make longer when moving to LED.
- Lower House - 4 strings of 25 C9 Twinkle Bulbs (Total of 100)
- Garage - 2 strings of 25 C9 Twinkle Bulbs (Total of 50) - would make longer when moving to LED.
- 2 Tree trunks - each one consists of 2 strings of 25 C9 Twinkle Bulbs (50 each - 100 Total)

All of the C9 bulbs are 12” apart for the length of the strings.

Garage View - https://photos.app.goo.gl/8N6Kouq12KX8ELLaA

Tree View - https://photos.app.goo.gl/3QrsF5VXzNRhFGkVA

Old Video of the house - https://photos.app.goo.gl/cjCHkrwpryMuHGoX6 - from 6 years ago. A couple of things have changed but the same setup is still there.

If I go with 6” LED spacing on the strings then I would be looking at 260, 200, 140, 100 & 100 respectively.

If I go with 3” LED spacing on the strings then I would be looking at 500, 400, 280, 200 & 200 respectively - would rather not if I can help it. Alot of power injection needed.

I found out that the manufacturers are discontinuing the incandescent C9 Twinkle bulbs so I am needing to move to a LED setup. And no, the current individual C9 LED Twinkle bulbs are not bright enough to match my current C9 bulb setup, hence the reason why I am still running the incandescent bulbs. Since installing my C9 Twinkle bulbs numerous years ago after purchasing our house, it has gotten quite the following at Christmas time each year. I am NOT looking to do a light show set up here, regular C9 Twinkle style look with the LED’s at Christmas time with a bit of flexibility for the rest of the year usage.

I was originally thinking that I could program the new LED’s to twinkle like the C9s did previously but the timing of them would be the difficult part. The C9 bulbs do not have a set on and off time as you can see in the above videos. There are some bulbs that twinkle faster, and some are slower. Some also stay on OR off longer before coming on OR going off … all having a very random cycle to do their individual jobs.

I was looking around and seeing what options are out there for a year-round setup other then the tree trunks. Then I could utilize them whenever I wanted throughout the rest of the year. I have viewed a couple of companies and what they have to offer for a year-round product, but the cost is way too high. It appears that they use a 3-LED module for their setups. And they do not have a solution for my tree trunks so I would have to figure something out for those anyhow. I do like their apps though for configuring their products. My concern with their setups is how the bulbs emit their light vs the C9’s and whether or not that they would be bright enough compared to the C9’s. My C9 strings are attached via the edge of the shingles OR hanging on the eavestroughs. The other company’s setups are mounted under the soffits of the house which does give them weather / sun protection throughout the year, but it is more of a wall wash affect for lighting purposes.

My biggest question is ... Has anyone successfully made the transition from C9 incandescent bulbs into the LED world? I am looking for something that has the same brightness as the C9's and are easy to use. If you made this move from the C9 bulbs, what did you use and are you happy with the outcome of your move.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated !! Other than the Pixelabulbs that look like the old C9 bulbs ... odds are they won't last with the sun and weather for very long and they don't appear to be very bright compared to my current C9's. Update - Okay ... been checking these guys out and apparently they are UV protected for the wire, bulb socks along with the lens and they have 2 LED's instead of them. Maybe an idea now ...

Thanks,
Dean

 

[Mark_M]

Welcome to ACL @IzzyEddy ,
Lovely long write up, must of taken a bit of time!

My biggest question is ... Has anyone successfully made the transition from C9 incandescent bulbs into the LED world? I am looking for something that has the same brightness as the C9's and are easy to use. If you made this move from the C9 bulbs, what did you use and are you happy with the outcome of your move?

I never had incandescent C9's but I jumped to LED pixel C9's because they looked nice.
I use Ray Wu (manufacturer) WS2811 (pixel protocol) C9's. Inside is 2 SMD 5050 RGB LED packages. They are bright, more than an incandescent 12v car brake light.
(I judge the brightness of a traditional C9's is similar to an incandescent 12v car brake light).

I don't have much of an example on camera, but the C9's around the roof line are facing down. Compared to the arches with pixel lights facing forward, they are just as bright.
But in this example they C9's are at 100% brightness and arches lights are at 10% brightness.
At 10% brightness the arches still light up across the road.

Pixel displays are VERY bright. Many people HAVE TO turn the brightness down because 100% is a flood light.

Other than the Pixelabulbs that look like the old C9 bulbs ... odds are they won't last with the sun and weather for very long and they don't appear to be very bright compared to my current C9's.

Update - Okay ... been checking these guys out and apparently they are UV protected for the wire, bulb socks along with the lens and they have 2 LED's instead of them. Maybe an idea now ...

Two years I've had them.
I don't see any discoloration or fading at all. It is summer down here in NZ during Christmas, light are up at least 30 days in the intense UV.

If you've got concerns then mount the C9's under the eve slightly, that should protect the cable and most of the light from direct sunlight.



I'm using type "A" in this image of C9's.
Flat base and the LED on it's circuit board inside is encased in resin.

 

[TerryK]

Mark. Isn't item C a C7?

 

[Mark_M]

Mark. Isn't item C a C7?

B and C come in C7 as well.
I think B comes in C9 too.

A (which I have) is definitely a C9.

 

[IzzyEddy]

Thanks for the reply Mark M. !!

I do like to make sure that I get as much information included and videos are always beneficial. The house has become very popular at Christmas time even though it is not a programmed display. The twinkle lights are not something people really see anymore these days and I think it has its own appeal. We get people stopping on the road all the time thinking that it is a programmed display. That is why I am trying to make sure that I get this right, the 1st time. I have a couple of years of spare C9 bulbs to use for replacements so I have some time to kill for research and designing it all.

Are you using 5 or 12V versions?

What are you using to control them, did you build your own controller(s), programming, etc. OR are you using certain controllers with an app? There are some companies that provide year-round solutions that have their own apps now and I like the capabilities that they provide for the various displays / controls. The biggest issue using the apps is trying to get controllers that the apps will communicate with.

And the other question is ... any failures so far?

I checked out a couple of Ray Wu's C9 options ... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001136330091.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.70.26b74f12WzYhys ( looks like your version ) and https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32342630541.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.16.26b74f12WzYhys ( a new version maybe ).

Probably going to use something like this ... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32763622387.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.10.7bc725ecj5LgFQ for my tree wrapping with the pixel mounting strips to hold it to the tree instead of pulling on the wires in between the modules.

Thanks,
Dean

 

[Mark_M]

I do like to make sure that I get as much information included and videos are always beneficial.

Here's my display behind the scenes video; (click thumbnail)


I like a neat and tidy look, so I try to hide cables and have straight lines.
------

What are you using to control them, did you build your own controller(s), programming, etc. OR are you using certain controllers with an app?

I am using the Falcon F48. There are other brands and types.

Cansipator Christmas has videos on both so you can understand how each is different.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcAXycWNSxM&ab_channel=CanispaterChristmasakaJeff


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcf5U7XByfE&ab_channel=CanispaterChristmasakaJeff


There is more brands too, like Advatek and Kulp controllers. These other brands also have versions like the F48 and F16.
Another mention is that the new F16 and F48 will be released this year.
[https://falconchristmas.com/forum/index.php/topic,13929.msg116736.html#msg116736]

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There are some companies that provide year-round solutions that have their own apps now and I like the capabilities that they provide for the various displays / controls.

Yes there are, but this a DIY hobby. You can go down those routes if you'd like.
Spirit here is to make it yourself.

xLights has many controls and Falcon Player adds many more.
I'll get to this a little further down.

<End of post 1 of 2>

 

[Mark_M]

<Post 2 of 2>
I thought that post was getting too long so here's part 2.

The biggest issue using the apps is trying to get controllers that the apps will communicate with.

xLights has many immigrations with other controllers.
xLights can configure Falcon, Kulp and Advatek controllers for you (and many more brands)


----

Are you using 5 or 12V versions?

I am 12v pixels. Specifically the 12v Regulated versions.
12v gives longer runs without 'power injection' and the regulated version gives consistent colour.

---

I checked out a couple of Ray Wu's C9 options ... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001136330091.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.70.26b74f12WzYhys ( looks like your version )

Yes, this is the exact one I have. I got mine from Ray Wu as well.

---

and https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32342630541.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.16.26b74f12WzYhys ( a new version maybe ).

Not a new version. Trouble with that version is they are prone to water ingress where the cables enter. Resin doesn't always get around the cable to seal it.
The version I have has good waterproofing.

---
To talk about control and apps like companies provide:
What sort of functionality are you looking for?

Have a search around for these software systems;

• xScheduler included with xLights is a show player. It will run the lights on your computer. Controllers connect with Ethernet.
• Falcon (Pi) Player (FPP) is a portable show player. It runs on a small single board computer, like the Raspberry Pi. A Raspberry Pi uses very little power so it's something that can be left on constantly.
• Remote Falcon is a viewer controller. It allows your viewers to vote for the next song. Create your own webpage and customise where buttons and information is. This runs with Falcon Player or xScheduler.

xScheduler and Falcon Player have playlists and start/stop times. Extra functionality is external triggers, this could be a (physical) large button to play the next song for example. Other external factors could be a light sensor. Pixels are VERY bright, so some people have their pixels bright and the light sensor adjust the brightness into the night.

xScheduler and Falcon Player allow for you to control the show remotely. Both have a web interface.
There is no 'apps' at the moment. Mainly because it's a pain to get approval from Google play and Apple for each update. There is also no need for an app because you just access the show players web interface in any web browser.

 

[i13]

Answering the questions:

5V or 12V: 12V is better at covering longer distances without power injection (connecting the string of lights back to a power supply part-way along it to help avoid voltage drop) but the compromise is power consumption. It is a good option when there are multiple LEDs per pixel because more of the extra power is used to make light instead of heat. I generally recommend 12V when you have a small number of pixels in a large area and 5V when you have a large number of pixels in a small area. I use both 5V and 12V. There are different types of 12V pixels which you can read about in this thread https://auschristmaslighting.com/threads/12161/

I notice that one set of lights you linked to has 20 AWG wire, one has 18 AWG and one isn't specified. On request, Ray will generally use whatever wire size you want and if you don't mind a slightly higher price, thicker (lower AWG numbers) is better because it reduces the voltage drop. He'll customise the spacing too but wider spacing means more voltage drop.

I notice that the second link in your post looks the same as the second pixel that Mark_M pictured except that it has dark casing instead of clear. Although I haven't tried them, my suggestion would be to stick with the one that Mark_M recommends instead of the one in your second link. The price difference is minimal and you'll almost definitely get more brightness due to it containing two RGB LEDs. If that's too bright then you can turn it down.

Mark_M has pretty much beaten me to it with answering the controller question. For sequencing (coordinating which lights turn on when), you'd use software like xLights which has a GUI in which you can map your display, place effects on your display items and set their parameters. I have no doubt that it'll do a reasonably good job of imitating the effect of the original light sets that you already have.

On the topic of failures, I haven't had too much trouble with pixel nodes. If one does fail, you can cut it out and solder another one in its place without having to remap anything. The controller just sends out data for however many pixels you tell it to and those pixels display the effects. Swapping out a pixel or strand has no effect. If one pixel does fail, it can stop passing the data to all of the pixels after it, causing them to stop working until you fix the problem.

 

[IzzyEddy]

Sorry guys, got busy with some other stuff and then ended up going back to work on top of that.

Thank you for the replies !!

Yes, 12V is the way to go, I just wasn't sure what Mark was using for his lights.

Before ever looking into a permanent solution for Christmas / all year long lights. I was aiming to have everything ran from my wired computer. On the same network, I would have Wi-Fi connected controllers to run my various strings of lights. 1 for the upper (approx. 130'), 1 for the lower (100'), 1 for the garage (approx. 70') and 1 or 2 depending for my 2 trees (50' for each tree). This way, the majority of the strings would be available at any time for operation without network / power cables running everywhere. I have looked into various light options (LED C9 bulbs, pixels, etc.) a few years ago as technology has upped the ante for various lights and their capabilities. It wasn't until last fall when I found out that the incandescent bulbs were going to be discontinued that I REALLY started to look into this more.

Some of the permanent solutions that I have looked at are as follows:

Permanent, Customizable LED Lights Controlled From Your Smart Device

Gemstone Lights is a permanent, customizable LED lighting system for your home or business. Our App is easy to use and allows you to select from over 13 million colours.

www.gemstonelights.com

EverLights | Permanent Outdoor Christmas Lights

Our smartphone-controlled, permanent Christmas lights bring life to your home. Every season. Every color. Nearly invisible. Install it once, and enjoy for years to come.

myeverlights.com

JellyFish Lighting – Permanent Outdoor LED Lighting

JellyFish Lighting is the premier outdoor lighting company dedicated to illuminating the places and moments that matter most in life. Our mission is to design products that bring people together and make life brighter.

www.jellyfishlighting.com

Celebright | Permanent Holiday Lighting

celebright.ca

Permanent LED Holiday Lighting | Trimlight

Professionally installed, exterior trim lighting with a patented channel design that's hardly noticeable during the day and bright and beautiful at night.

www.trimlight.com

Oelo Permanent Christmas Lights, Outdoor Patio Lights & Commercial Outdoor Lights

Oelo offers a number of quality lighting solutions, including permanent Christmas lights, outdoor patio lights and commercial outdoor lights.

www.oelo.com

This is where I was seeing their apps and the various light sequences that they have that I mentioned above. If they built it, then there has to be a way of creating something very close to what they have done but MUCH cheaper. I have priced a couple of them and WOW !! I liked the capability of using some of the sequences along with the dusk to dawn or timed on and off patterns, etc.

For controllers, my past research ran across the Arduino but after more resent research there as been others that I have seen in various forums, etc.

My biggest concern is the way the light is delivered to the viewers. With the C9 bulbs, the light is delivered from pretty much any angle and it is direct to the viewer. Some of the above permanent solutions do more of a wall wash (I am going to call it) with their lights which isn't direct to the viewer. I am concerned with losing the feel of the lights when viewed directly vs a wall wash type. Mark, it looks like your set up is direct as well to the viewer.

There is just so many options now for lights, controllers, apps (if going in that direction), mounting solutions, etc.

Thanks,
Dean

 

[TDIGUY03]

If you are still looking into this,
I am just getting started but I bought a show form someone packing up in Toronto and with it I got a bunch of C9 lights he had mounted on the house. They are not perfect but I don't think I will end up using them in my display.
If you are interested in getting some to try out, I am just down the street from you in Emeryville.

 

[IzzyEddy]

What kind of C9's are they? Incandescent (what colours / twinkle OR solids) OR LED's and are they the programmable ones?

 

[TDIGUY03]

They are Individually addressable LED's, basically bullet pixels with the C9 covers on them. I don't think I will likely need them for anything unless I decide to just wrap them around my trees. If you want a few/all to play with and see if they will work for you we can work something out.

 

[Indigogyre]

Hi Izzy,

A bit late but welcome. Not sure if they ship to the North Us (Canada) or not but you might want to look into PermaTrack.

PermaTrack 50 Pack Aluminum & Premium Mounting Solution

PermaTrack 50 Pack Aluminum - Upgrade your lighting setup with PermaTrack's 50 Pack Aluminum. The premium choice for secure and durable mounting. Shop now in the USA.

www.permatrack.us

 

[IzzyEddy]

Yeah, I have seen those guys ... thanks. Damn things are expensive though ... could be more than my whole setup outside of mounting materials.