How to do Roof

[Kimbo3000]

Sweet.. I'll be sure to get some of those end caps too (as well as some heatshrink as i think i am all out of that as well).


Another question if you dont mind..


I think I am going to fix the strip to conduit with cable ties to make it easier to put up and take down. When joining strips (mainly on a straight line, but corners too), I want to use waterproof joiners every 3 or 4 metres to make it easier to pack up and store away. How would you use the waterproof joiners, but still have a continual string of LED's without a visual break where the joiner is.


My only thought on this would be to have a little bit of lead on the end of each strip and bend it down and tuck the joiner into the middle of the conduit where it cant be seen...


Thanks for all your help guys.. its been very informative!


..
Kimbo

 

[fasteddy]

Ok.. well this is getting confusing now. What is the difference between those 12V 2812b strips and the INK1003's? They are both 12V, 1x LED per pixel, both have the 12V to 5V converter on the back.. they appear pretty similar.

they are very similar as far as LED count and LED used , the difference is that there is a 4th 12vdc track on the INK strip that has a buck converter that brings the voltage down from 12vdc to 5vdc. The strip can be used with either 12vdc or 5vdc. But the limitation is that when used as 12vdc then you can only cut in 1/2 meter increments

They both have the 4th track and the buck converters. I really wouldn't worry too much about which one to choose over the other.

When joining the 12V 2823b and the 12V 2811 end to end, wont they look different when lit up because of the 3x LED's/pixel on the 2811 strip?

you cant connect these together as one is 12vdc with 3 LEDs per section and the other is 5vdc with single LED per section. The other issue is that because these are 2 different batches of strip then the LED colours may also vary between the 2 strips

You can connect them together but you'll need a small section of wire in the join because the WS2811 strip won't be connected to the 5V line in the 12V WS2812B strip. They will look a bit different. Joining them at a corner would be a good idea from a sequencing and physically parctical viewpoint.

Even if the WS2812B strip had no 12V input, you'd still be able to run it end-to-end with its own power supply. I do this in my display.

Another question, when cutting and joining (to go around corners) with the strips in the silicon tube, how do you seal the tube back up to stop weather getting in? Just put a blob of rooving silicon on it?

Use a bit of clear heat shrink then inject with a small amount of silicone and then shrink. It will make a perfect weatherproof seal

I do it that way and it works, especially when joining the same type of strip end-to-end without a gap of wires. That said, I've always used black heat shrink. You still 100% can't see it unless it overlaps one of the LEDs.

When sealing off the end of a strip with wires I use these http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Silicon-end-cap-8mm-10mm-12mm-optional/701799_459153462.html
I would still add the heatshrink on top of these because they don't offer much physical protection for the solder join; they just help seal it off. Ray doesn't mind if you buy them in small numbers alongside other items.

DOH! Looks like I didn't read the 12v 2812b and thought he was talking about the standard 12 volt strip with 3 sections because the ink and the 12vdc 2812b are effectively the same. But I don't understand what benefits are gained from using the ink or 2812b over the 12vdc 2811 3 lights per section strip for outlines as from the viewing point you would gain very little except that you use more power and you now would either have to cut the strip every 1/2 meter when using 12vdc single lights control or just use 5vdc and deal with the voltage drop if you want shorter lengths. I doubt you would also get the same distance before having to power inject because effectively the 12vdc 3 LEDs per section has 1/3 of the current that would be needed to run single LED control for the same number of lights because when LEDs are connected in series then the current is the same as if it was just a single LED

Joining different lights together like what the OP was suggesting is definitely something I don't recommend between using different strips because the RGB orientation may be different (can be changed in the controller) but the bigger issue will most probably be that the LEDs used are of different standard and thus you get 2 different looking strips due to the LEDs being from different sources. This can even happen between batches of the same product. Get all the strip you need to do your outlines at the same time and make it the same to ensure you colour consistency is OK for your outlines.
In the past I have connected 5vdc, 12vdc and 24vdc lights in one, injecting different power along the way between pixels, modules and strip, but its not something I would promote as far as joining 2 strips together for an outline due to the above reasons

I want to use waterproof joiners every 3 or 4 metres to make it easier to pack up and store away. How would you use the waterproof joiners, but still have a continual string of LED's without a visual break where the joiner is.

With joiners then there are some options which I use for that purpose. Ray sells joiners for the strip and you can make it water proof by adding some clear heat shrink over it which you can remove when you are packing up. This allows for a solder less install which may be very appealing to some. Just make sure the strip terminals are clean before using and that you seal enough for no water to get in creating corrosion on the contact points.

This type will show the least gap
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3pin-10mm-width-connector-for-10mm-wide-pcb-led-digital-strip-ws2811-ws2812b-etc-no-need/32389247007.html

And if you want to go around corners then this type will do the trick
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3pin-10mm-wide-connectors-two-sides-with-15cm-long-cable-for-10mm-led-strip-ws2811-ws2812b/32546543423.html

You can also get this in 4 pin type if you go with the ink or 2812b 12vdc strip

 

[i13]

My only thought on this would be to have a little bit of lead on the end of each strip and bend it down and tuck the joiner into the middle of the conduit where it cant be seen...

That's how I'd do it but I probably wouldn't bother trying to fit the connectors inside the conduit because everything else disappears when the lights come on.

Note that you'll have to use black cable ties because the white ones get damaged by UV.

But I don't understand what benefits are gained from using the ink or 2812b over the 12vdc 2811 3 lights per section strip for outlines as from the viewing point you would gain very little except that you use more power and you now would either have to cut the strip every 1/2 meter when using 12vdc single lights control or just use 5vdc and deal with the voltage drop if you want shorter lengths. I doubt you would also get the same distance before having to power inject because effectively the 12vdc 3 LEDs per section has 1/3 of the current that would be needed to run single LED control for the same number of lights because when LEDs are connected in series then the current is the same as if it was just a single LED

My understanding it that the buck converters don't just pass the current on like resistors do. I thought they're more efficient so there is a higher current in the 5V line than the 12V one. That said, they aren't 100% efficient so the 12V should drop off slightly faster in the 12V WS2812B.

The question is whether the buck converters continue to supply 5V when the 12V along the strip has dropped below 12V. For example, imagine the 12V has dropped to 7.5V in a long length. The WS2811 strip would probably be struggling but the 12V WS2812B has the buck converters. Would the buck converters still drop it to 5V and allow the LEDs to function normally?

 

[fasteddy]

My only thought on this would be to have a little bit of lead on the end of each strip and bend it down and tuck the joiner into the middle of the conduit where it cant be seen...

That's how I'd do it but I probably wouldn't bother trying to fit the connectors inside the conduit because everything else disappears when the lights come on.

Note that you'll have to use black cable ties because the white ones get damaged by UV.

But I don't understand what benefits are gained from using the ink or 2812b over the 12vdc 2811 3 lights per section strip for outlines as from the viewing point you would gain very little except that you use more power and you now would either have to cut the strip every 1/2 meter when using 12vdc single lights control or just use 5vdc and deal with the voltage drop if you want shorter lengths. I doubt you would also get the same distance before having to power inject because effectively the 12vdc 3 LEDs per section has 1/3 of the current that would be needed to run single LED control for the same number of lights because when LEDs are connected in series then the current is the same as if it was just a single LED

My understanding it that the buck converters don't just pass the current on like resistors do. I thought they're more efficient so there is a higher current in the 5V line than the 12V one. That said, they aren't 100% efficient so the 12V should drop off slightly faster in the 12V WS2812B.

The question is whether the buck converters continue to supply 5V when the 12V along the strip has dropped below 12V. For example, imagine the 12V has dropped to 7.5V in a long length. The WS2811 strip would probably be struggling but the 12V WS2812B has the buck converters. Would the buck converters still drop it to 5V and allow the LEDs to function normally?

I was discussing the differences between the load between 3LEDs per section compared to 1 LED per section and how they will draw the same current, so for the same amount of LEDs the 3 LEDs per section will draw a lot less current and thus less voltage drop to contend with

The issue with voltage drop and using buck converters is that the duty cycle changes and could be a reason of people reporting failures with the buck converters in the past, the lower the input voltage the higher the input current and thus the lower duty cycle required. In most cases a buck converter designed for 12vdc running at 7.5vdc input will have a rating of only 50% duty cycle. compared if it had the full 12vdc then it would be closer to the 150% duty cycle
But then im no expert on this and I don't have too much real world experience with these strips and the buck converters so really only going off theory

Information was sourced from using this buck converter calculator https://learn.adafruit.com/diy-boost-calc/the-calculator

Min Vin =7.5v
Max Vin = 12v
Min V out = 4v
Max v out = 5v

 

[darylc]

The issue with voltage drop and using buck converters is that the duty cycle changes and could be a reason of people reporting failures with the buck converters in the past, the lower the input voltage the higher the input current and thus the lower duty cycle required. In most cases a buck converter designed for 12vdc running at 7.5vdc input will have a rating of only 50% duty cycle. compared if it had the full 12vdc then it would be closer to the 150% duty cycle

I've run over 100m of ink1003 strip in my show for a couple of years using the back of strip buck converters and had zero failures.

I've also run ~20 ray wu 125W DC-DC converters and had 1 single failure that was my fault (high load and no airflow).

Daryl