Power Supply help

christophe

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Hi everyone, i am working on a project in my garage 4mx4m. I am running 6300 pixels ws2815 12V DC with 5 power supply 350W each off my falcon f16v3 using XLights.
I have a few questions:
1. Will i be able to power all LEDs from the 4 power point found in my garage?
2. What is your best recommendation cable wire to be used?I am confused with the exact size to use. The wire has to be 3 cores and I am planning to buy 100m cable.
3. Where should i get all my LEDs and power supply? Any good seller with good deals?

Looking forward to hear from you soon.
 

orchidman33

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From my calculations 6300 pixels at full briliance white(worst case) the load would be 378W, but most of us are only running about 30% briliance and that would give you aload of 113.4W with all white on. Going to any colour away from white will lower the current draw from the power supply. Generaly pixels run full power at 60mA per pixel or 20mA per LED within the pixel.So if you just had tthe red on at full power, you would have a load of 126W at full power. So with this load you would only be using 1 of your power outlets for your entire display.
 

Mark_M

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1. Will i be able to power all LEDs from the 4 power point found in my garage?
Depends on your load draw is per power supply. Total a circuit can handle is usually 16A but 10A for each plug point. Likely these 4 power points are connected to each other. So 16A we'll say is max.
Most of these are 3A each on the mains input. So likely around 12A-14A total. (According to Meanwell LRs-350 model)

You'll probably need to turn on/off different circuit breakers in the house and find the garages one. Be aware that some other outlets in the house may be on the same circuit. My bedroom is on the bathroom and garage circuit, I've got to spread a total maximum of 16A across all that.

2. What is your best recommendation cable wire to be used?I am confused with the exact size to use. The wire has to be 3 cores and I am planning to buy 100m cable.
Depends on what length, voltage and current is needed.
There's calculators online;
http://wiresizecalculator.net/ You'd be selecting 'single phase', the power supply/pixel voltage, current you expect the pixels will draw (and a little more) and the length of cable between the pixels and power supply.
If you're buying in bulk [100m roll] something like 12AWG should be decent for long distances.
Many people also use cheap extension cord wire from Bunnings, this is usually 1mm square wire.

3. Where should i get all my LEDs and power supply? Any good seller with good deals?
A lot towards 'Meanwell' brand here. Depends what stores sell them, Mostly online.
Some people have had no problem with Chinese Ray Wu ones as well.
It's really a power supply that's capable, to your budget and would be safe.
 

Mark_M

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From my calculations 6300 pixels at full briliance white(worst case) the load would be 378W, but most of us are only running about 30% briliance and that would give you aload of 113.4W with all white on. Going to any colour away from white will lower the current draw from the power supply. Generaly pixels run full power at 60mA per pixel or 20mA per LED within the pixel.So if you just had tthe red on at full power, you would have a load of 126W at full power. So with this load you would only be using 1 of your power outlets for your entire display.
Depends on your load draw is per power supply. Total a circuit can handle is usually 16A but 10A for each plug point. Likely these 4 power points are connected to each other. So 16A we'll say is max.
Most of these are 3A each on the mains input. So likely around 12A-14A total. (According to Meanwell LRs-350 model)

You'll probably need to turn on/off different circuit breakers in the house and find the garages one. Be aware that some other outlets in the house may be on the same circuit. My bedroom is on the bathroom and garage circuit, I've got to spread a total maximum of 16A across all that.
I was writing this at the same point as Orchidman33,

3A per power supply on the mains input is absolute max each power supply would draw. Obviously you can limit the amount of pixels and/or brightness and reduce the load.

Orchidman33 has gone further back than I have, which is more specific to your scenario. Calculate the pixels and current.
Even at full load the mains should be below 16A draw.
By the calculations for pixel power (Orchidman33's post) you could run this off two power supplies.

I'm sure you'll know this, but I'll say it anyway. You will be power injecting and the Falcon F16v3 can only hand 60 amps total. The fuses per output are 5A but the total amount per bank is 30A.
 

christophe

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Thank you so so much for your help. Really appreciate.

It says that 5m roll takes 72W per metre. Since I am using 21 rolls, maximum power is 1512W at full brightness. Now since the show will be run at 30% brightness, the power consumption would be 500W.
Which then gives maximum amp of 41.66amps which is below the 60amps from the falcon f16v3.

For the wire, is 12 AWG not to big for this project? I will have 165 strips of led cut into required lengths and therefore have to connect them together. And also its to connect falcon to the leds but with short distances (max 10mtrs).

Please do correct may if I am wrong. I am very new at this and really looking forward to make the project work.

A few more details of the project:
- I will be running the LEDs for about 105metres in 4mx4m garage. Thats why I wanted to use 5 PSU of 350W each for power consumption.
- I am not worried too much about voltage drop because i can easily power inject the LEDs with required voltage because they wont be far from the PSU.
I will have one PSU in each corner of the room + one for the middle LEDs.

I wanted to use 5V for the whole system (cheaper) but then someone said i better use 12V because of required Amps difference and therefore with 12V less Amps is required.

Again thank you so much
 

Mark_M

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It says that 5m roll takes 72W per metre. Since I am using 21 rolls, maximum power is 1512W at full brightness. Now since the show will be run at 30% brightness, the power consumption would be 500W.
Which then gives maximum amp of 41.66amps which is below the 60amps from the falcon f16v3.

For the wire, is 12 AWG not to big for this project? I will have 165 strips of led cut into required lengths and therefore have to connect them together. And also its to connect falcon to the leds but with short distances (max 10mtrs).

A few more details of the project:
- I will be running the LEDs for about 105metres in 4mx4m garage. Thats why I wanted to use 5 PSU of 350W each for power consumption.
- I am not worried too much about voltage drop because i can easily power inject the LEDs with required voltage because they wont be far from the PSU.
I will have one PSU in each corner of the room + one for the middle LEDs.

I wanted to use 5V for the whole system (cheaper) but then someone said i better use 12V because of required Amps difference and therefore with 12V less Amps is required.

Again thank you so much
30A per side is what I have been told, I don't have an F16v3 to check.
Although you might be able to get away with 40A from the Falcon, do you really want to? Your power injection wire is more likely to be attached directly to the power supply [through a fuse].

12AWG is a random number that might be useful, it's fairly thick but not over the top. More or less thickness is needed on the application.
12AWG is about 2 square mm diameter conductor. That should carry a lot of power. The other option is to use thinner wire in parallel.

12v VS 5v is the major debate lol.
You might be better off with 5v because of the prop area being small, power injection wire runs will be short.
This will also cut back on the amount of heat wasted with 12v.

The amps of 12v is less than 5v. But the wattage is more. 5v is more efficient because it doesn't need to dissipate an extra 7v in heat.


The other thing too which I've just clicked on; you're using strip by the sounds of it. Make sure to waterproof the power injection points.
5v strip tends to have 1 LED as 1 pixel. Most 12v strips have 3 LEDs as 1 pixel. That might be a deciding factor on it's own.
 

OzAz

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@christophe You should (IMHO) always plan your power usage for 100% brightness at 85% to 95% load of the power supply (85% for cheap no name brand power supplies; 95% if using high quality power supplies).
Reason for configuring everything to have the capacity to run at 100% brightness at 85-95% load is to guard against failure or mistake. Better to have 2 power supplies running at 50% load than 1 at 100% load!
 

Bigwillystyle

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5v strip tends to have 1 LED as 1 pixel. Most 12v strips have 3 LEDs as 1 pixel. That might be a deciding factor on it's own.
Thats an interesting tidbit.. I was wondering how everyone does arches with 3 led per node strip the other day.. Apologies for the hijack..
 

christophe

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@Mark_M My plan was to go for 5V. But then someone told me with 5V, the amount of current required for the whole system would be too high. And that the power points found in my garage rated at 10amps would never be able to draw so many amps. Therefore I am better off using 12V which is half the amount of amps. Do you think thats true or i can just go with 5V only? To go 5V is even cheaper for me.

Yes the falcon will take 30A per bank. But thats only if I am using the falcon to power the leds. My plan was to power the leds with the power supply separately and use the falcon to send signals to the LEDs only.
 

Mark_M

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@Mark_M My plan was to go for 5V. But then someone told me with 5V, the amount of current required for the whole system would be too high. And that the power points found in my garage rated at 10amps would never be able to draw so many amps.
The mains input will still be within 10A.
The amperage of the pixels does not mean that is the mains amperage.
With the volts, current and wattage equation you'll see how they relate.

The LRS-350W I'm looking at draws a maximum of 3A (mains input) for any of the different output voltage models.
But you'll see how the amperage changes between the voltages. At 5v it can handle 60A, at 12v it can handle 29A.

A better model of Meanwell power supplies like the RSP has different characteristics.

The mains input is mostly related to the efficiency of the power supply. Like an LED light bulb VS a Halogen; they can provide the same amount of light but have different power consumption.
 
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TerryK

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... am running 6300 pixels ws2815 12V DC with 5 power supply 350W each ...
... 5m roll takes 72W per metre. Since I am using 21 rolls, maximum power is 1512W at full brightness. Now since the show will be run at 30% brightness, the power consumption would be 500W.
Which then gives maximum amp of 41.66amps ...
There are 2 versions of the WS2815 (a WS2815 and WS2815B) and vendors do not always state which is in a product they have listed. The WS2815B is supposed to be a more efficient version; same or near same illumination with less power consumption. From your numbers (and a little googling :)) it appears you are using or plan to use a 60 led per meter strip.

1588000094085.png
I believe you also mean 72 Watt per roll, not per meter. I do not quite agree with the 72 Watt per roll however. I've tested a WS2815B 150 LEDs per meter roll and it seems to like 35 12 mA per node/LED at full white. World Semi's datasheet indicates RGB channels at 10mA and quiescent at 2.1 mA. Full on white should then be 32.1 12.1 mA. For a 5 meter 300 LED per meter roll the roll wattage should be in the range of 115 43 Watt depending upon slight variations in the ICs.

In either case, you mentioned 21 rolls and having 5 350 Watt supplies. Can they be driven with the 5 supplies? 21 rolls at 72 Watt is 4.3 supplies, so yes. 21 rolls at the manufacturer's 115 43 Watt is 6.9 2.6 supplies so not without limiting or experiencing problems so 3 supplies should handle it.

For what it is worth, most specifications do not indicate how power is being measured. And during searching to help answer your questions I found another vendor listing WS2815 60 LEDs per meter at 18 Watt per meter (90 per roll). The BTF Lighting 30 LEDs per meter I tested is listed at 45 Watt maximum but I test it at 63.

Corrections made Apr. 29, 2020
 
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christophe

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@TerryK Thank you for your help. Do you think I am better to go with 7 PSU or maybe 6 PSU and see how it goes and then buy any additional one if needed? I mean do you think its safe like that?

The one that I saw on Ray Wu's store says only WS2815. I need to check if its WS2815b. They are the only one on 12V where we can control each pixels independently.

Do you think 18 AWG 3 cores would be enough to connect the strips together? See link below.

Thank you so much guys. Really appreciate
 

Mark_M

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