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Another Newbie trying to be Clark Griswald

Discussion in 'RGB Lights - Intelligent Pixels and 3-Channel RGB' started by remoteutah, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. remoteutah

    remoteutah Full Time Elf

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    Please move to appropriate forum if needed!


    Please excuse the fact that I am posting this in both the LightShow Pro Forum and the LOR SS Forum! Please don't flame me, just trying to figure out which software is going to work better for me. I am a newbie to LSP and LOR but not a newbie to low voltage wiring. Have done LOTS of alarm systems, computer networks, Security Video, etc.


    Equipment I will be using (some purchased already - some not):


    Lights-


    5 meter waterproof smd strips with 5050 RGB LED - 30 LED/M with 30 WS2811 Chips/M - 5 volt - Qty = 12 (The infamous 12 string tree) - Channels/strip= 450 Pixels/strip=150 total channels=5400 total pixels=1800
    5 meter waterproof smd strips with 5050 RGB LED - 60 LED/M Dumb lights - 12 volt - Qty = 9 (gutter lights) - Channels = 27 DMX
    100 waterproof 5050 RGB LEDs on wire with WS2811 Chips on each LED - 5 or 12 volt - Qty = 5 (Star & snowman) - Channels/string= 300 Pixels/string=100 total channels=1500 total pixels=500
    Lights - Grand Total Pixels = 2300 Grand Total channels = 6900 + 27 DMX ( this is not accounting for the face of the snowman which I am still working out - I am thinking led matrix... LOL)


    Hardware-


    Dedicated NIC card in PC (not used for anything else but lights) for E1.31 network
    8 port 10/100 Network Switch for E1.31 network
    J1SYS ECG-P12R Pixel Controller - 2040 Pixels / 6120 channels
    J1SYS ECG-P2 or get another J1SYS ECG-P12R
    J1SYS ECG-D2 - E1.31 to DMX Bridge
    Probably get one of those cheap 27 channel DMX contollers for the dumb lights as they are not very critical


    SO!!!!! ------
    Here is my Question! Which software is better to use?! I like the SS part of LOR but I understand there may be some limitations with the addressable lights I am using. Those limitations being (1) - SS only supports 50 pixels per string and my strings are 150 pixels; and (2) SS only supports 3600 channels (although there is talk of going to 7200 this year). Even at 7200 channels , that leaves me 300 channels (or 100 rgb leds) left!


    I don't know the support LSP has for mapping/sequencing RGB leds. Maybe someone can enlighten me!
     
  2. fasteddy

    fasteddy I have C.L.A.P Global Moderator Generous Elf

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    Welcome to ACL, seems like you have been doing a lot of reading and learning and have your requirements already planned. We hope ACL had some part in that :D Dont worry about getting flamed here as you will find the community here is very giving and we treat eachother with respect, its a hobby and a hobby is supposed to be fun.


    LSP allows great control when using RGB pixels and this is where LSP shines above the others, some of the power features are:

    1: Allowing you to group different elements within your display to apply effects either as individual elements, groups of elements or as a whole display.
    2: The visualizer also acts as a display mapper, so when using macros and transitions you have the ability to apply those effects over individual or a group of selected elements or as a whole display
    3: The ability to drop in an AVI video effect over parts or your whole display
    4: There is a matrix drawing tool that allows you to create your own animations

    There are many other powerul features to LSP but the ones above make it stand out. I did 10000 channels last year and used LSP and know i couldnt have done what i did as easiliy with anything else, you will be able to see in my video the wide range of capability that LSP allows for sequencing


    Fasteddys 2012 Colour Christmas Show on Vimeo
     
  3. Bird

    Bird Proud LOR user

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    First
    [​IMG]
    to ACL

    Second
    You will never be flamed here ever.
    Been a member for 14 months, check the forums most every day, and never seen anything negitive from one member towards another. Nothing but a bunch of very friendly helpful folks here. :)

    This is my opinion only :D
    A little confused by the comment "Those limitations being (1) - SS only supports 50 pixels per string and my strings are 150 pixels". Example of my confusion, a CCR is 5M with 150 RGB's but there are 3 per group, and that I believe would be the 50 you are talking about. I'm not an expert in all strips out there, but are you saying you are getting 5M strips with 150 individual controlled RGB's? I could see that as an LOR issue. No argument, LOR software is designed around the use of LOR hardware which includes LOR CCR's. However many use non-LOR RGB with LOR software.

    Although I have LSP, I have not used it, and many here will say a lot of good things about LSP abilities over LOR which is true from what I have seen in videos and read in the forums, but no will would tell you that LSP is as stable and as easy to use as LOR. LOR is the slow steady turtle, "may not win the race but will finish". I like LOR due to its stability and ease of use.

    That said, there are some new folks involved with LSP that may turn its stability around and may even address the ease of use, that is the reason I purchased LSP a few months ago with 24 months of upgrade ability. I'm hoping. :)

    Any program becomes more complex in use with RGB.

    Hope that helps.
     
  4. oldmanfathertime1000

    oldmanfathertime1000 Computers, music, audio, video, electronics

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    remoteutah,

    I am using LOR S3 & I have the old type lights, the new LEDs & a pile of the RGB pixel strips. I can run in LOR, DMX & E1.31 all at the same time with no problems.
    I also have LSP. I tried to get into it last year but I am a little slower than some on learning . So due to time constrants I stayed with LOR. I had no problems working with RGB in LOR and found it was more fun that the old type lights...
    LSP at the present time does have some issures but in time they will get fixed. It still can be used as it is. You will have to judge for your self. I can do every with LOR S3 that LSP does except the video stuff. It may take me a little longer , but I am retired & have plenty of time (lol)...
    Get the demos of both & play with them. They are also other programs out there that do the same thing (make lights go blinky) & are used by a lot of the guys in this forum. Some use a few of them together....
    Good luck to you & get into the chat room & ask , ask , ask & ask one more time....
     
  5. OP
    OP
    remoteutah

    remoteutah Full Time Elf

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    Fasteddy - Thanks for the welcome. Your lights..... WOAH! WOW! OOOHHH! Ok, I am sure you have it posted somewhere but I have not found it. What are you using in that setup? SW? Lights? Controllers? Interfaces? 10000 channels!!!! Insane dude!


    We don't have a house big enough for something like that. I say we, because Tammey looked over my shoulder as I posted the last message and said.. "What about my snowflakes and meteor lights?" I plan on making my own meteor lights by chopping up some ws2811 RGB strips into various lengths and putting them in tubes. That way I can not only make them more "random", but they can be in any color ya want them in. Plus you can use them as random strobes (yeah not very bright but you could do random snowflake effect). And her snowflakes will be addressable too, so I guess I will be hitting 10000 channels soon too. Dang! And eddy, yes, ACL did help a LOT!


    Bird - Thanks also for the welcome! Yours was more colorful than eddy's - LOL!


    Yes, The strips I am using are 150 individually controlled RGB LEDs. I have ordered 1 strip so far and if it works out I will order 11 more. I also ordered 1 strip of ws2811 5050 rgb led 60 leds/m with 60 chips/m but it is only 4m long. That would be 240 pixels and 720 channels. I wanted to see the difference - lol!


    So yes, either of those light strips would present a problem for LOR. Plus, how is LOR's E1.31 support?


    Not wanting to flame, but CCR have been wonderful and I love them! They inspired me to research and create my own version of them. Maybe LOR need to come out with the CCR2, using newer technology strips (that are getting cheaper by the day and update SS to handle 240 pixels per string. oh oh , or maybe rename the CCR to CCR50, then use the 30led/m and 60 led/m strips to create the CCR150 and CCR240. I would mean updating/getting new controllers, but think of the possibilities...


    I am hoping you are right about the stability changing soon!


    oldmanfathertime1000 - Thanks! Video stuff? I plan on downloading and installing both demos as soon as all of my "test" stuff is here... so I have the most time to play in case there is a xx day time limit on the demos.
     
  6. fasteddy

    fasteddy I have C.L.A.P Global Moderator Generous Elf

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    Thanks for the kind words

    Software = Lightshow pro V2.5
    Lights = a mix between intelligent and dumb RGB lighting, display is 100% RGB except for some strobes.
    Controllers = 2 x ECG-P12R, 1 x ECG-P2, 2 x E680, 2 x TP3244 (obselete) 2 x ECG-DR4 8 x rays DC boards and a few little other bits and pieces.
    Interface = all E1.31 from the computer going throug a network switch with a dedicated NIC


    I use the 50 individually controlled strip which is 12vdc and similar to the CCR, I prefer 12vdc from a voltage drop perspective and channel management. What needs to be decided is if the individual pixel control is worth the channel management and the high current and voltage drop issues that are associated with individual pixel control.

    http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/5m-led-digital-strip-DC12V-input-WS2811IC-256-scale-10pcs-IC-and-30pcs-5050-SMD-RGB/701799_568458133.html

    You will find that the 60 LED/M is an overkill, great for using within a high resolution matrix but otherwise the issues as far as voltage drop and channel management may not make this option as appealing as it seems on the surface. More is not always best.

    The strip i linked to above will work with LOR and superstar because it has the same pixel specifications as the LOR CCR. LOR advanced version has full E1.31 and DMX support


    I have 8 CCRs in my display from 4 years back and these are all now within my E1.31 network, in fact the CCR strips themselves are being driven by a ECG-P12R as the CCR strip is just a 6803 pixel type. My CCR controllers are running in DMX mode through an ECG-DR4 and are actually running my candles which have 6803 modules in them. I am now using the 2811 strip for all my stuff and my strip tree was made using the 12vdc 2811 strip.

    Stability has come a long way and now with LSP 64 bit memory crashes are a thing of the past. Yes LSP has some bugs but none of them are show stoppers and there will be a major focus on improving performance and stability over the coming months


    Oldman hasnt really played a great deal with LSP as he ran out of time and I believe he has yet to fully discover the features that make LSP so powerful with RGB pixels. I hope i can convince him to take another look :D
     
  7. Boof63

    Boof63 Senior Elf Generous Elf

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    Hi remoteutah, my first year this yea,r used HLS as sequencer, 4 arches- ws2811 strip, 10 corostars + 8 eddy canes- ws2811 modules (rectangular) controlled by 1x P2 + three trees , roof gutter,iciciles and shrubbery incandescant controlled by 1x D2 -> ray 27 channel. worked a treat (most of the time), but minimal outlay.
    HLS work well with regualr updates through the peak season (daily) and its free, linke is here, http://joehinkle.com/HLS/. all the best with your choice but he guys here will asnwer any question no matter how silly it may seem to you. They really helped out heaps to get up and running
    cheers Boof63
     
  8. Bill Ellick

    Bill Ellick Full Time Elf

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    Welcome to ACL remoteutah.
    I too am a "newbie" with the RGB stuff and surprised by your list for your display!
    When did you sneak in and copy my worksheet for what I was thinking of using on my display? LOL
    Pretty scary as you have copied my "want list" pretty close. I am still up in the air about what to use for my pixel tree as to whether to go 5 volt or 12 volt but am leaning more towards 12 volt as I learn more about this stuff. It does appear that the "majority of folks" do use the 12 volt strip like Fast Eddy referenced for their trees due to power concerns and distance requirements for 12 v over the 5 v stuff.
    I currently use LOR as my display is all LEDs at this point but I did play with LSP when it first came out and have been toying with it lately as it is a good program for pixel stuff. I am seriously thinking of buying an upgrade and see how it is working now since it is a very good program for the most part. Like any, it just needs some work but then again don't they all?
    I want to get a pixel tree up this year and may upgrade my mini trees to RGB or else make some RGB arches but only time and money will tell!
    Another program I downloaded the other day and have just started to look at is the HLS software from Hinkle. This looks to be one of the hidden jems in programs for pixels and has a lot of power to it. You might want to take a look at it as well.
    Ask away in this forum. You will not find a better group of dedicated crazy people anywhere else who love this hobby! We may be all broke and tearing our hair out but we certainly do have fun getting smiles on the faces with this stuff!
    Bill
     
  9. OP
    OP
    remoteutah

    remoteutah Full Time Elf

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    Fasteddy - Thank you! That is quite a list and a lot of info. I will be referring to that often and may have a question or two. Very nice layout, though. My fiancee saw your candy canes and now she wants some of them too! Thanks bud!


    Boof63- I will look at that. I see Bill mentions it too. Cheers, mate


    Bill - I will get to you in a minute. Going to check and see where my actual handwritten notes are to see if maybe you took mine???!!! Hmmmm...
     
  10. fasteddy

    fasteddy I have C.L.A.P Global Moderator Generous Elf

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  11. OP
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    remoteutah

    remoteutah Full Time Elf

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    I got my ecg-p2 in today. I ordered the "board only" version since I have several boxes to mount it on. But I guess with the case version, you get all of the plug-in screw connectors. Any idea where I can find the 4pin and 2 pin plug-in connectors here in USA. I would look for them here in town, but this part of Colorado is a bit in the backwater... if ya know what I mean!
     
  12. Bill Ellick

    Bill Ellick Full Time Elf

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    Well you could shoot an email to J1Sys and see about getting them from there or at the very least ask them for the part numbers. Better yet get the Mouser number if they have it and order them from there:
    http://www.mouser.com/
    I know that Andy Harrison has a P2 so maybe you could shoot him an email and ask him if he knows the part numbers for them although I would think that J1Sys would be my first bet to go with.
     
  13. fasteddy

    fasteddy I have C.L.A.P Global Moderator Generous Elf

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    The plug in connectors come with the board even without the case, so if you didnt recieve the plug in connectors then i would send Ed from J1SYS an email as it should have been included
     
  14. bbayjohn

    bbayjohn Senior Elf

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  15. Beefer

    Beefer Apprentice Elf

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    They're three wires, so no Clock - just power, ground and data.
     

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