First year here, I'm just getting totally random failures every day practically. It's a bit of a pain to basically spend $2 replacing 2 pixels a night (cost of connectors and replacement pixel). I only have ~1300 pixels up but next year I will probably triple it. I will purchase my pixels a few months earlier next year and will look to burn them in for a while but based on what has happened this year I don't think that will eliminate everything as some are failing into the 3rd week of operation. My biggest annoyance is if I forget to check the pixels before the show starts I have only a short time period to be fixing pixels before it gets too dark and getting on the roof at night isn't high on my priority list.
How Long To Test New Pixels?
- Thread starter orlandoal
- Start date
I purchased two extra strings in case of failures expecting perhaps 10 total failures? I'm up to 80 and counting out of 4400 - and two from the repair strings, several on the same string with no replacements to fix them. It may be slowing down now, but one night I would fix two and another would light up. The better part of 3 hours, probably totalling 15 splices.
Compare that to all my other ones (Rextin, last year's ETOPs from Light It Up LEDs), and perhaps 3 total from about 2,500 total.
The last two 100 strings of Ray Wu's from Light It Up I bought to quickly put together are more woeful than my pre buys. One had 6 repairs and counting, and still doesn't work (data stops passing through). I gave up on that one after depleting the first string of spares and well on my way to some rextins. They survive sometimes for a minute if you squeeze them.
For the matrix, several strings with multiple replacements. Some don't have any yet. Hell, I'd be happy with 1-2 a night but 10 and 15 a night is not right.
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paullyxmas76
Full time elf
Once again we apologies to all our customers for the high rate of pixel failures...again this year we have seen a larger increase in pixel failures and you have to wonder why....we bench test multiple batches when they come in for up to 24 hours on full white and although we nut out some of the faulty strings it's definitely difficult to nut them all out when you send them to a customer. We have contacted the suppliers and asked for replacements for all the ones that have gone bad....this year in my opinion one it was bad solder joints ...two bad IC's and inferior capacitors especially on the 12V resistor ones not to mention the shorts we have seen between the v+ and grounds on the PCB....the question is what has happened since 2020 for the quality to decrease so much...globally the major vendors in the US are even seeing the high failure rate we are seeing here....it's doesn't help me as a vendor and it definitely doesn't help all our customers when all they want is their show to work and have minimal failures...we tested on our display this year a mix of 12V and 5V pixels from 5 "REPUTABLE" vendors including some we have been using for years... and all strings we have tested had either 1 or 2 failures or multiple pixels on a string which either needed to be spliced out and replaced or replacement of the whole string...so the question is ...will the quality get better....do we as a vendor trust the supplier we choose to fulfill our pixel orders guarantee that their will be minimal failures in ratio to what we import......its just been a tough couple of years with the failure rate being so high...that its put us in a point where do we really want to sell a product that is continue going to fail as time goes on ...as all our customers know that we want to provide the best possible customer service we can and the products we can sell that are not going to cause the major issues we have seen in the last 2 years....I know we have tested a number of vendors over the last year and a half....and we can honestly say it is definitely hit and miss...you may get a batch which has 0 failures then you may get delivered a batch that has multiple failures over multiple strings.....ever since the "pandemic" the quality has definitely gone down in china in Regards to pixel quality....a interesting statement made by a member of "Official Xlights Support Group" was made yesterday to their theory as they are seeing the failure rates in the US to what we are seeing here...
Quote From Michael Shuttock" Member of Official Xlights Support Group on Facebook
I’ve read on multiple pages and forums about the subject of Pixel quality. Then this leads to a ton of comments about our experiences with So-n-Soes Pixels from Such-n-Such Vendor. And this in turn leads to many counter-comments about the same suppliers. Wait a while and someone starts it all over again. 2019-2020 has at the very least, given us all some doubt about even our most dependable vendors.
But I’d like to shed some light on what’s happening in China and why we have seen a quality issue as of late. And I fear that we haven’t seen the last of the bulk failures.
Who am I and how do I know any of this?
I am an electro/mechanical engineer. I work for a company, that here in the states, builds shielded electronics packages for the military. We have 8 facilities that do commercial and automotive products in Taiwan and China. I am in contact with my counterparts daily. What you are unaware of is that there is a distinct Cultural difference in the way they think about manufacturing. Because their government controls the way they do business, they accept “substitutes” as the norm.
What I mean is in the US we spend a ton of money on the research side first. We develop proof of concept. We strenuously test and redesign for flaws and when the finished product is ready for production, no deviation from the BOM (Build of Materials) or drawing specs are acceptable. If it calls out on the drawing for a certain screw; that is the only screw that is accepted. And the vendors where they can source this screw is vetted. And this list is short.
This very example I had to deal with after a customer received 1000’s of parts here in the US that our facility in China had substituted a screw “they could get”. This all to meet a ship date. To compound this; we had no idea where that screw came from. It could’ve come an actual facility that its soul job is to make this screw. ORRRrrrr it could come from a garage around the corner that happen to over produce this screw 20-years ago and somebodies 2nd-cousin twice-removed knew a guy. I know this sounds ludicrous, but it is absolutely true!!
This happens because in their culture its offensive to be wrong. They will never say “I don’t know”. If I call them out on a mistake, they aren’t only embarrassed they lose face. They are offended.
They will make up an answer before they will admit they don’t know.
So back to the pixels. During covid their country was shut down, and their definitions of “essential workers” were/are different. They shut down whole towns if there were reports of exposure. If one of those towns were where the Pixel manufacturers supplier of quality epoxy or of its components; they would go ANYWHERE to find what they needed or a close-enough facsimile. Even to a place that they knew their quality wasn’t as good. Just to make sure that that their container would leave the port when it was supposed to. Missing shipments was not only bad for business its reported to the government.
Now to address my fear it's not over. Buying and producing products by BULK is the most economical. Chinese manufactures know this better than most. When stuff was held up from shipping out of Chinese ports, manufacturing didn’t stop. Especially when there is a market for it. Pixels are the newest trend in our Light Show world. Trust me they’ve invested in it. There are pixels over there waiting for a big enough order and could've been produced a while ago.
Now with all this said, manufactures in China want to make good products. And under normal operating conditions they do that. We’ve seen great Pixels. But we as consumers and those of you that are importing them need to ask more questions before you accept container loads of subpar products. And stand by your product and hold your manufacturer responsible.
The only people that can control China’s quality is us. If you are buying pixels from a local vendor, get their guarantee in writing and use it if necessary.
Sorry for the long read."
So is Covid the main Culprit with China virtually having a Zero Covid Policy and shutting down whole provinces in 2020-2022 where the main factories are which produce the raw product pcbs, IC"s,LEDS etc Prior to 2020 the quality was excellent....? Heck I have pixels still in my show where I purchased from a "REPUTABLE" vendor....back in 2017 and have only a handful of failures in that time.
Who knows..what the issues were there can be many theories and I'm sure we will never know....at the end of the day ....we as a vendor just want to sell a product for our customers that are going to have minimal issues if any. We have got a couple of Manufactures in Mind which from the ones we have tested over this 2022 season have come out on top with the less failures in a string compared to the 4 other vendors...we have even specified a higher QC..(Whether this happens or not is yet to be seen) and a higher quality of raw product...not cutting corners and age testing at the factory to illuminate failures. We will also bench test pixels alot more when we receive them to nut out the failures also before we send them to customers...We are thinking of a PRE BUY here in Australia in Early January for Pixels....but again if customers don't want to purchase from us in regards to the issues they have seen with pixel quality we totally get that but again understand this has been something again that has been somewhat out of our control for what comes from the factory it has been a really lottery.......which in turn reflects on us...but it also reflects on the manufacture.....we didn't buy one Ray Wu factory pixels this year due to the issues we saw last year.....and that is definitely what it is going to be like this year with the suppliers we have been dealing with with bad quality pixels. Once again..once we have replacements available we will be sending out pixels to those effected.....We want to thank all our customers this year for your loyal and utmost understanding and support in regards to the issues we as a vendor have faced over the last 2 years...We want to wish each and everyone of you a very Merry Xmas and a happy New Year....lets hope 2023 is a better one.
Best Regards to you and your Family from ours.
Paul
Light It UP LEDS Xmas
Quote From Michael Shuttock" Member of Official Xlights Support Group on Facebook
I’ve read on multiple pages and forums about the subject of Pixel quality. Then this leads to a ton of comments about our experiences with So-n-Soes Pixels from Such-n-Such Vendor. And this in turn leads to many counter-comments about the same suppliers. Wait a while and someone starts it all over again. 2019-2020 has at the very least, given us all some doubt about even our most dependable vendors.
But I’d like to shed some light on what’s happening in China and why we have seen a quality issue as of late. And I fear that we haven’t seen the last of the bulk failures.
Who am I and how do I know any of this?
I am an electro/mechanical engineer. I work for a company, that here in the states, builds shielded electronics packages for the military. We have 8 facilities that do commercial and automotive products in Taiwan and China. I am in contact with my counterparts daily. What you are unaware of is that there is a distinct Cultural difference in the way they think about manufacturing. Because their government controls the way they do business, they accept “substitutes” as the norm.
What I mean is in the US we spend a ton of money on the research side first. We develop proof of concept. We strenuously test and redesign for flaws and when the finished product is ready for production, no deviation from the BOM (Build of Materials) or drawing specs are acceptable. If it calls out on the drawing for a certain screw; that is the only screw that is accepted. And the vendors where they can source this screw is vetted. And this list is short.
This very example I had to deal with after a customer received 1000’s of parts here in the US that our facility in China had substituted a screw “they could get”. This all to meet a ship date. To compound this; we had no idea where that screw came from. It could’ve come an actual facility that its soul job is to make this screw. ORRRrrrr it could come from a garage around the corner that happen to over produce this screw 20-years ago and somebodies 2nd-cousin twice-removed knew a guy. I know this sounds ludicrous, but it is absolutely true!!
This happens because in their culture its offensive to be wrong. They will never say “I don’t know”. If I call them out on a mistake, they aren’t only embarrassed they lose face. They are offended.
They will make up an answer before they will admit they don’t know.
So back to the pixels. During covid their country was shut down, and their definitions of “essential workers” were/are different. They shut down whole towns if there were reports of exposure. If one of those towns were where the Pixel manufacturers supplier of quality epoxy or of its components; they would go ANYWHERE to find what they needed or a close-enough facsimile. Even to a place that they knew their quality wasn’t as good. Just to make sure that that their container would leave the port when it was supposed to. Missing shipments was not only bad for business its reported to the government.
Now to address my fear it's not over. Buying and producing products by BULK is the most economical. Chinese manufactures know this better than most. When stuff was held up from shipping out of Chinese ports, manufacturing didn’t stop. Especially when there is a market for it. Pixels are the newest trend in our Light Show world. Trust me they’ve invested in it. There are pixels over there waiting for a big enough order and could've been produced a while ago.
Now with all this said, manufactures in China want to make good products. And under normal operating conditions they do that. We’ve seen great Pixels. But we as consumers and those of you that are importing them need to ask more questions before you accept container loads of subpar products. And stand by your product and hold your manufacturer responsible.
The only people that can control China’s quality is us. If you are buying pixels from a local vendor, get their guarantee in writing and use it if necessary.
Sorry for the long read."
So is Covid the main Culprit with China virtually having a Zero Covid Policy and shutting down whole provinces in 2020-2022 where the main factories are which produce the raw product pcbs, IC"s,LEDS etc Prior to 2020 the quality was excellent....? Heck I have pixels still in my show where I purchased from a "REPUTABLE" vendor....back in 2017 and have only a handful of failures in that time.
Who knows..what the issues were there can be many theories and I'm sure we will never know....at the end of the day ....we as a vendor just want to sell a product for our customers that are going to have minimal issues if any. We have got a couple of Manufactures in Mind which from the ones we have tested over this 2022 season have come out on top with the less failures in a string compared to the 4 other vendors...we have even specified a higher QC..(Whether this happens or not is yet to be seen) and a higher quality of raw product...not cutting corners and age testing at the factory to illuminate failures. We will also bench test pixels alot more when we receive them to nut out the failures also before we send them to customers...We are thinking of a PRE BUY here in Australia in Early January for Pixels....but again if customers don't want to purchase from us in regards to the issues they have seen with pixel quality we totally get that but again understand this has been something again that has been somewhat out of our control for what comes from the factory it has been a really lottery.......which in turn reflects on us...but it also reflects on the manufacture.....we didn't buy one Ray Wu factory pixels this year due to the issues we saw last year.....and that is definitely what it is going to be like this year with the suppliers we have been dealing with with bad quality pixels. Once again..once we have replacements available we will be sending out pixels to those effected.....We want to thank all our customers this year for your loyal and utmost understanding and support in regards to the issues we as a vendor have faced over the last 2 years...We want to wish each and everyone of you a very Merry Xmas and a happy New Year....lets hope 2023 is a better one.
Best Regards to you and your Family from ours.
Paul
Light It UP LEDS Xmas
Just to echo this, I've found Light it UP LEDS to be awesome as a vendor, no issues with you guys / girls. It is more an issue with quality of the product you receive from the supplier which you can only do so much to mitigate issues with which you definitely have done more than most.
merryoncherry
Senior elf
At least you shipped pixels. The worst vendor for me never shipped pixels.
I unpack every new string, untwist and straighten it out, plug my wled in, turn it on, if it lights it lights. Then I install into prop, test again because that's about the amount of abuse they're ever going to see. Then I hang it in a hard to reach place and one last quick test.
After a week in the sun all the epoxy this year's batch has all cracked so it's only a matter of time, I won't use any more of these on hard to reach props (the mega tree ffs)
After a week in the sun all the epoxy this year's batch has all cracked so it's only a matter of time, I won't use any more of these on hard to reach props (the mega tree ffs)
orlandoal
Angry Elf!
- Thread starter
- #23
Well, I am glad it is not just me, although, I don't wish any of you to have pixel issues in the first place.
I must admit that my pixels have come from multiple sources at different times throughout the last 12 months, mainly as I have decided on what prop to build I have purchased the pixels I required for that prop, probably not the most cost efficient way to do it I know.
Only on one prop did I end up replacing the whole string because I had dying pixels about three nights on the bounce, the fault seemed to just move along the string night after night.
I certainly did not start the thread to have a pop at anyone or vendors in general, I was just wondering if anyone else was having similar issues, let's hope things get better going forward.
I must admit that my pixels have come from multiple sources at different times throughout the last 12 months, mainly as I have decided on what prop to build I have purchased the pixels I required for that prop, probably not the most cost efficient way to do it I know.
Only on one prop did I end up replacing the whole string because I had dying pixels about three nights on the bounce, the fault seemed to just move along the string night after night.
I certainly did not start the thread to have a pop at anyone or vendors in general, I was just wondering if anyone else was having similar issues, let's hope things get better going forward.
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7 year pixel "veteran" here. I don't burn in or test at length any pixels. They get untangled, pushed into the prop and connected as required. I then plug in a USB battery bank connected to a pixel tester. If they all work and flash the right colours in order (RGBW, then rainbow) then I unplug the tester after 15 seconds and its onto the next prop.
I have been fortunate enough to not run into multiple failures that have recently been reported. This year I had to replace 5 pixels out of all my roofline & roof coro items due to 4 of them dropping a colour and one introducing crazy flicker.
I will note I predominantly use Ray's cheap 5v PROMOTION! nodes and I expect to get failures as the quality is visibly lower (with regards to precice roundness of bullet and thinner guage wire) but I make it work all the same and have been happy with the results to date.
I have been fortunate enough to not run into multiple failures that have recently been reported. This year I had to replace 5 pixels out of all my roofline & roof coro items due to 4 of them dropping a colour and one introducing crazy flicker.
I will note I predominantly use Ray's cheap 5v PROMOTION! nodes and I expect to get failures as the quality is visibly lower (with regards to precice roundness of bullet and thinner guage wire) but I make it work all the same and have been happy with the results to date.
thewanderingpine
Full time elf
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2021
- Messages
- 318
So far this year - my 12v resistor pixels are looking pretty good. I’ve just had one failure - that I suspect might be due to impact under wind. It’s the 5V square ones that seem to be having more issues - multiple issues with those.
thewanderingpine
Full time elf
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2021
- Messages
- 318
This wasn’t a failing of epoxy. This was a complete lack of epoxy. As far as I can tell - there’s nothing there.
I think anyone who has bought from Paul will stand by and his service as absolutely amazing - and a very highly recommended and respected vendor in this field.
Most people will know that none of these failures are by any fault of Light It Up - and all due to the manufacturers in China supplying dodgy products to him.
The conversation is open.
@paullyxmas76 - thank you.
Anyone who has bought direct from the manufacturers in the last year or two, it would be great to supply Paul with information on which vendors you have found the most reliable in your batches - I for one would like to purchase locally, and if this helps our local retailers determine the best supplier, I'm all for it. Of course - assuming that this information is welcome and useful to you Paul
paullyxmas76
Full time elf
Defenitely none take....we just need quality pixels to come from China and the reputable suppliers to come to the party in supplying them...Merry Xmas to you and your Family!
Best Regards
paullyxmas76
Full time elf
Thank you so much for your continued support...it is very hard receiving dodgy batches...but we will definitely be holding the supplier to account...here's hoping it gets better in 2023!! Merry Xmas to you and your family and thank you for your continued support!!
paullyxmas76
Full time elf
We are having the same Issues here in Oz....globally pixel failures since 2020 have definitely increased...We hop you have a Merry Xmas to you and your Family!