Store Bought lights, can I use these in an interactive display?

[Andrew2708]

I have over the past few years spent a small fortune on fairy lights, rope lights motifs plus some home made lights. Can anyone share with me if and how I can use / modify these to create an interactive lighting display. I hate to think that I have to throw all of this out to start again with pixels and the like.

Thanks for any help or direction you can provide.

Andrew

 

[David_AVD]

Hi Andrew,
I have rope light motifs, candy canes, etc in my display alongside my pixel based props.

You will need a DC controller and one or more power supplies to run the non-pixel ones and a way to get data from your computer to the controller.

ACL member @AAH sells controllers in his Hanson Electronics store.

The steps required will vary depending on the light set, as they are not all the same voltage and control method.

 

[Andrew2708]

Hi Andrew,
I have rope light motifs, candy canes, etc in my display alongside my pixel based props.

You will need a DC controller and one or more power supplies to run the non-pixel ones and a way to get data from your computer to the controller.

ACL member @AAH sells controllers in his Hanson Electronics store.

The steps required will vary depending on the light set, as they are not all the same voltage and control method.

Hi David,
Thankyou very much. Why do I need power supplies if all my lights plug into a PowerPoint ? Sorry if this is a silly question.

andrew

 

[David_AVD]

I'm assuming you'll want to take full control over your light sets. The way to do this is chop the original MFC (multi function controller) and power supply off your set of lights. Multiple sets of lights then wire to your new controller and that will use a new larger power supply to run them.

Where it becomes tricky is when the sets of lights don't all use the same low voltage. You may need multiple power supplies in that case. The old MFCs and power supplies (or combination units) will be discarded.

 

[i13]

I have mostly traditional LED strings in my display which is all computer-controlled. They have some advantages over pixels e.g. the ability to go long distances and cover large areas without power injection (connecting additional power further along the pixel string to avoid voltage drop). They also have a traditional Christmassy look that I never want to phase out.

The different voltages are annoying but I took a different route to get around that obstacle. I modified the light sets so that they all run on the same voltage. It was a bit of work but I have no regrets; I can now plug any light set into any nearby controller with any power supply and not have to worry about it. Rearranging the display each year is easy. I'm happy to explain how to do this but I'll need to know more about the light sets first. If you want to do this, I suggest making a list of the light sets including the following details:

• Whether there are blinking functions or only steady on
• The output voltage of the plugpack including whether it is AC or DC
• The number of wires going from the plugpack or multifunction unit to the first LED
• How often the number of wires drops back to the same number that's between the multifunction unit and first LED
• The typical number of wires soldered into one LED. There are occasional LEDs in the sets with a different number of wires but most should be the same.
• The number of LEDs in the light set

I should be able to help once I have these details.

The only ones that I don't understand are the icicle sets that have only two wires between the plugpack and first LED AND typically more than two wires soldered into each LED. I might be able to figure it out if I see them but I haven't yet had a chance to get a good look at these.

If something can't be modified and/or run on a DC controller, it's usually possible to put a relay in the low voltage section to get ON/OFF control.

I'd advise against using 240V AC controllers with light sets that have plugpacks. There is often a delay between the plugpack receiving power at its input and sending it to the light set at its output. In addition, many plugpacks (especially lightweight ones) don't like being dimmed. David_AVD is recommending DC controllers which is the route that I took.

Where are you located?

 

[David_AVD]

The only ones that I don't understand are the icicle sets that have only two wires between the plugpack and first LED AND typically more than two wires soldered into each LED.

Perhaps those are polarity reversing ("2-wire") light sets? You can tell by applying DC one way then the other and seeing if each polarity lights only half the LEDs. If so, @AAH has a controller to suit them. I also made a controller for some of my 2-wire sets a few years ago, but never offered them for sale.

 

[i13]

I'm sure that they are the polarity-reversing 2-wire light sets. I just don't know enough about their wiring to modify that particular type of 2-wire set.

 

[David_AVD]

The 2-wire strings are usually like the 3-wire strings in that there are sections of LEDs in series, arranged in offset pairs.

The difference is that instead of a common and alternating 1- and 2- returns, both strings of each section are in parallel, but with one reversed.

 

[i13]

I hope that I understood you correctly because the 2-wire (referring to the number of wires in the lead-in cable) layout that I think you're describing is uncommon in strings in my experience. It does exist in icicles but I'm not sure how common it is. For some reason, the 2-wire and 3-wire layouts seem to be completely different. I've attached a picture showing the 2-wire string layout that I've seen much more often. This is easier to modify than the one that you describe. The voltage can be lowered by removing one of the sections or increased by adding a resistor to either wire of the lead-in cable. Remember to choose a resistor with a high enough wattage to handle this.

I just don't understand how some of the 2-wire icicles are wired. They look like some sort of variation of the wiring diagram in the attached picture but they can still be connectable. I have seen them bundled up but I haven't had a chance to unravel them and have a good look. They have four wires connected to most of their LEDs.

 

[Andrew2708]

I have mostly traditional LED strings in my display which is all computer-controlled. They have some advantages over pixels e.g. the ability to go long distances and cover large areas without power injection (connecting additional power further along the pixel string to avoid voltage drop). They also have a traditional Christmassy look that I never want to phase out.

The different voltages are annoying but I took a different route to get around that obstacle. I modified the light sets so that they all run on the same voltage. It was a bit of work but I have no regrets; I can now plug any light set into any nearby controller with any power supply and not have to worry about it. Rearranging the display each year is easy. I'm happy to explain how to do this but I'll need to know more about the light sets first. If you want to do this, I suggest making a list of the light sets including the following details:

• Whether there are blinking functions or only steady on
• The output voltage of the plugpack including whether it is AC or DC
• The number of wires going from the plugpack or multifunction unit to the first LED
• How often the number of wires drops back to the same number that's between the multifunction unit and first LED
• The typical number of wires soldered into one LED. There are occasional LEDs in the sets with a different number of wires but most should be the same.
• The number of LEDs in the light set

I should be able to help once I have these details.

The only ones that I don't understand are the icicle sets that have only two wires between the plugpack and first LED AND typically more than two wires soldered into each LED. I might be able to figure it out if I see them but I haven't yet had a chance to get a good look at these.

If something can't be modified and/or run on a DC controller, it's usually possible to put a relay in the low voltage section to get ON/OFF control.

I'd advise against using 240V AC controllers with light sets that have plugpacks. There is often a delay between the plugpack receiving power at its input and sending it to the light set at its output. In addition, many plugpacks (especially lightweight ones) don't like being dimmed. David_AVD is recommending DC controllers which is the route that I took.

Where are you located?

Hello and thank you for your detailed reply. I think what you have done is what I want to do. Many people I have spoken to ( who have visited my house to see the lights) and suggested I dont go down the road of full animation and the reason they like my lights is that they are more old fashioned traditional, very Xmassy , lots of twinkles . I would like to keep this look which sounds exactly what you have.

Do you have an email address, I can send you some photos. I will get back to you on the information you are asking about.

I live in Sydney, You?

Merry Xmas,
Andrew

 

[David_AVD]

Andrew, please feel free to continue this here with images, etc. You'll get a wider range of responses and quite likely help someone else out in the process.

 

[i13]

I'm in Canberra but I would like to visit my parents in Sydney for a weekend if/when it is safe to do so and the coronavirus restrictions are lifted.

There is usually a get-together for members of this forum (called a Mini) each year in Sydney around May or June and I would recommend attending if it goes ahead in 2021.

I agree with David_AVD about posting pictures and info here on the forum unless there's something that you don't want made public e.g. a picture of your address.

You probably will end up with two types of controller due to many newer light sets having reverse polarity. My display only has one type of DC controller because I avoid light sets with reverse polarity. If it has a multi-function blinker unit AND only two wires between that and the first LED then it'll be a light set that uses reverse polarity. The way this works is that the blinker unit is able to turn on every 2nd LED in the light set by swapping the polarity of the input to the light set. If there are three wires going from the blinker to the first LED then there are almost always two negatives and one positive. The negatives are separately switched in order to get every 2nd LED to turn on.

In order to test and modify the light sets, I recommend having a power supply with an adjustable voltage output. It'll need to vary between a minimum of a few volts below the lowest voltage DC light set and a maximum of your chosen final voltage (This is 24V - 31V DC for me) for this. A wider range can come in handy though. It's even better if you can get one with the ability to limit the current and tell you the output voltage and current but I get by without these features with the help of a multimeter.

Modifying light sets can be a big job if you choose to do it but I don't regret doing it. The alternative is to use multiple voltages. There were some old light sets to which I had to do one modification for every 10 LEDs; I expect that you won't have many of these. Some light sets only needed slight modifications. Other light sets already ran at 31V and I didn't need to modify them at all. All light sets need to be tested regardless of whether you choose to modify them. It's great that you're starting now and not later in 2021. Can you solder?

To get an idea of the sort of display that you'll have once it is converted to computer control, have a look at my 2016 videos. There are some individually controlled RGB pixels (which are brighter) mixed in but it is mostly traditional lights. https://auschristmaslighting.com/threads/9545/

 

[Andrew2708]

I have mostly traditional LED strings in my display which is all computer-controlled. They have some advantages over pixels e.g. the ability to go long distances and cover large areas without power injection (connecting additional power further along the pixel string to avoid voltage drop). They also have a traditional Christmassy look that I never want to phase out.

The different voltages are annoying but I took a different route to get around that obstacle. I modified the light sets so that they all run on the same voltage. It was a bit of work but I have no regrets; I can now plug any light set into any nearby controller with any power supply and not have to worry about it. Rearranging the display each year is easy. I'm happy to explain how to do this but I'll need to know more about the light sets first. If you want to do this, I suggest making a list of the light sets including the following details:

• Whether there are blinking functions or only steady on
• The output voltage of the plugpack including whether it is AC or DC
• The number of wires going from the plugpack or multifunction unit to the first LED
• How often the number of wires drops back to the same number that's between the multifunction unit and first LED
• The typical number of wires soldered into one LED. There are occasional LEDs in the sets with a different number of wires but most should be the same.
• The number of LEDs in the light set

I should be able to help once I have these details.

The only ones that I don't understand are the icicle sets that have only two wires between the plugpack and first LED AND typically more than two wires soldered into each LED. I might be able to figure it out if I see them but I haven't yet had a chance to get a good look at these.

If something can't be modified and/or run on a DC controller, it's usually possible to put a relay in the low voltage section to get ON/OFF control.

I'd advise against using 240V AC controllers with light sets that have plugpacks. There is often a delay between the plugpack receiving power at its input and sending it to the light set at its output. In addition, many plugpacks (especially lightweight ones) don't like being dimmed. David_AVD is recommending DC controllers which is the route that I took.

Where are you located?

Hi again,


In answering your questions as much as I can...

The large majority of the lights are 2 wire, just a few 3 wire. They range from 36V to 24V AC. I have a few I bought from Chas Clarkson which are 24v DC.

I have over 60 separate lights in total with the large majority having the blinking function as part of the plug pack and only about 5 of the lights are steady on. I have 5 x 30m rope lights , 6 rope light motifs, about 10 net lights. 2 sets of icicle lights which are the 2 wire into the multifunction unit then 3 wires beyond that.

I have attached some photos of plus packs I am not 100% sure about.

My Xmas lights as you can imagine is very twinkly, can this be maintained if i am not running animations? Or how do I keep this traditional look?

I have 3 power points around the yard that I run extension chords, power boards, double adapters etc. Hopefully you can access the links below to see my display.

YouTube

Share your videos with friends, family and the world

studio.youtube.com

YouTube

Share your videos with friends, family and the world

studio.youtube.com

I want to also DIY some lights that I can control using pixels, do you know any great yet not too hard to make structures for lights? I have a sloped yard falling away from the street which makes creating a great display a challenge.

Any help or direction you can provide would be awesome.

Andrew

 

[David_AVD]

You have a mix of mostly 12V, 31V and 36V lights there. That can be a challenge. Not impossible, but not a simple connect to a controller and go.

 

[Andrew2708]

You have a mix of mostly 12V, 31V and 36V lights there. That can be a challenge. Not impossible, but not a simple connect to a controller and go.

I have just purchased lights as I have needed them not looking at voltages. I have one string of fairy lights that is 50m long.