i13 said:
We come from the past. Its only Wednesday night here. Every day is important this time year was my point. 12v makes life so much easier
Newbie with plan in place and ready to pull the trigger. Would like suggestions!
- Thread starter LightsOn81st
- Start date
We come from the past. Its only Wednesday night here. Every day is important this time year was my point. 12v makes life so much easier
HeyRay2 said:I chose 12v nodes based on my research.
your research is correct based on cooler climates where the extra heat from the 12v pixels does'nt matter..
here in aust 12v pixel node's get warm running, an hot on a warm summers night.
excess heat in summer is not what you need, fires can start.
that it seems like 12v nodes don't suffer from voltage drop issues as badly as 5v and can run longer distances before needing power injection. I'm not averse to switching over to 5v, but would welcome any sources you can suggest for 12v nodes that don't have efficiency issues that Ray Wu's nodes have.
For power injection, do you have to run a wire back to the power supply for each injection point, or can you use "T connector" points in the power line as well similar to how I have for the line that connects the LED strips?
Now i wanna slap everybody for not noticing the 1 major flaw in that perfectly drawn diagram.
Notice where the second power supply hooks up.
It's still sharing the Positive Wire (back to the first power supply)
This Assumes the power supply's can load share (only certain ones can)
- This Fix is simple.. keep different power supply positive's separate
But Im Still Shocked no-one picked it up.
LightsOn81st
Apprentice elf
- Thread starter
- #18
uncledan said:i13 said:
We come from the past. Its only Wednesday night here. Every day is important this time year was my point. 12v makes life so much easier
I was thinking of going with 12v but, and mentioned by i13, that the nodes from Ray suffer from efficiency issues and that 5v would be the way to go. I'm going to have to do power injection either way it seems.
Can you detail on what specifically is easier with 12v?
half the power injection!
The diagram is fine except for the negative not being connected to the controller. I fail to see the problem that smartalec is pointing out.smartalec said:Now i wanna slap everybody for not noticing the 1 major flaw in that perfectly drawn diagram.
Notice where the second power supply hooks up.
It's still sharing the Positive Wire (back to the first power supply)
This Assumes the power supply's can load share (only certain ones can)
- This Fix is simple.. keep different power supply positive's separate
But Im Still Shocked no-one picked it up.
12V will still waste the power regardless of the ambient temperature. If it's 30mA per node or less then there isn't as much difference in power consumption between 5V at 55mA and 12V at 30mA. The 5V is still the only efficient way to get nodes running at the 55mA brightness but the brightness difference isn't that noticeable. Yes there is less power injection but it will depend on the current draw of the particular nodes you have. The 30mA ones are the way to go if you are considering 12V nodes.
I didn't mean to turn this into a 5V versus 12V thread - I just wanted to point out a flaw in those particular 12V nodes.
LightsOn81st
Apprentice elf
- Thread starter
- #21
smartalec said:HeyRay2 said:
Now i wanna slap everybody for not noticing the 1 major flaw in that perfectly drawn diagram.
Notice where the second power supply hooks up.
It's still sharing the Positive Wire (back to the first power supply)
This Assumes the power supply's can load share (only certain ones can)
- This Fix is simple.. keep different power supply positive's separate
But Im Still Shocked no-one picked it up.
I am in Washington State in the USA, our highest temperature we reach during year is the high 80's for a week or 2 in the summer, so I don't think the extra heat from 12v is as much of a concern here as compared to Australia.
However, if the general consensus is that 5v is a better way to go, I'm fine with but would welcome input on what drawbacks there are with 5v vs 12v. The biggest I'm aware of is that you have to do power injection more frequently. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
As far as the diagram, I'm not sure what you mean by "It's still sharing the Positive Wire (back to the first power supply)". My intention is for none of the PSUs to share a connection and all run independently. I plan on running independent lines from the PSUs for each "output" area (I figure I'll do 3 or 4 of the runs per PSU) and not trying to load share.
Let me know if I'm mistaken on doing it this way of if I'm missing something.
Thanks!
crap.. my eyes are playing funny Business on me..
i could of sworn the first T connecter went to the 1st power supply
opps
i could of sworn the first T connecter went to the 1st power supply
opps
i13 said:The diagram is fine except for the negative not being connected to the controller. I fail to see the problem that smartalec is pointing out.smartalec said:Now i wanna slap everybody for not noticing the 1 major flaw in that perfectly drawn diagram.
Notice where the second power supply hooks up.
It's still sharing the Positive Wire (back to the first power supply)
This Assumes the power supply's can load share (only certain ones can)
- This Fix is simple.. keep different power supply positive's separate
But Im Still Shocked no-one picked it up.
12V will still waste the power regardless of the ambient temperature. If it's 30mA per node or less then there isn't as much difference in power consumption between 5V at 55mA and 12V at 30mA. The 5V is still the only efficient way to get nodes running at the 55mA brightness but the brightness difference isn't that noticeable. Yes there is less power injection but it will depend on the current draw of the particular nodes you have. The 30mA ones are the way to go if you are considering 12V nodes.
I didn't mean to turn this into a 5V versus 12V thread - I just wanted to point out a flaw in those particular 12V nodes.
Kitman
Full time elf
Personally being a Computer guy myself I chose 12v for the majority of my display because well I know 12v and I know that I can use 12v computer fans inside of my control boxes to keep stuff cool and I don't have to worry about multiple power supplies 1 for fans, 1 for control board and 1 for lights, 1 power supply to rule them all and run everything off that power supply for that element or group of elements.
It's a little different when dealing with the LED Strip as they only tend to do this in 5v where you can individually control each light, otherwise you are stuck controlling them in groups of 3.
Personally I don't care about how efficient the lights are, I care about how easy it is for me to set up and how long a string I can get away with before having to inject power.
I have my Mega tree wired up with 12v bullet nodes, each run is 94 pixels long, thats 47 up and 47 down powered from one end only without issues, if this was 5v nodes I would have to run power from both ends of the run, more wiring more plugs more waterproofing more hassle. My sleigh however I have re wired with 5v nodes, this was because I was going to run 5v strip on it also, however the strip I have gotten doesn't seem to work with my chosen controller so I have had to improvise a solution (bought some cheap rope light from bunnings it will do) and for this I had to power inject at the end of each string of 100 5v lights otherwise I would have had a lot off wiring and 50 led strings which would have done my head in. Now I have to work out ho to run my 12v fans in the control box so I have a step up converter which I am hoping will step the 5v up to 12v for the 12v fans.
Morol of the story, just because someone suggests that you look at 5v over and above 12v doesn't mean you need to believe them, they are more than likely in the I love 5v camp so want everyone to use 5v. I will admit I am in the I love 12v camp, but honestly having both 12v and 5v side by side I can't see any difference and I can normally pick stuff like that.
Use what YOU are comfortable with don't let someone else tell you what to use, this hobby is all about having fun and putting on the display that YOU want to put on. Yes you have left it a bit late and the suppliers tend to be busier this time of year so may take 1 or 2 or 3 weeks to get your order so you might only have a short lived display but if you are happy with it then go for it.
As for an alternative supplier I have used Ben Brown Found on this forum for my 12v nodes for my Mega tree and I found him very helpful and never had an issue. I have also used Ray for my 12v Pixicles and had 3 different orders all custom made and all custom made different from each other hahaha.
Good luck and sorry this turned into a bit of a mega post much like most of our trees lol.
It's a little different when dealing with the LED Strip as they only tend to do this in 5v where you can individually control each light, otherwise you are stuck controlling them in groups of 3.
Personally I don't care about how efficient the lights are, I care about how easy it is for me to set up and how long a string I can get away with before having to inject power.
I have my Mega tree wired up with 12v bullet nodes, each run is 94 pixels long, thats 47 up and 47 down powered from one end only without issues, if this was 5v nodes I would have to run power from both ends of the run, more wiring more plugs more waterproofing more hassle. My sleigh however I have re wired with 5v nodes, this was because I was going to run 5v strip on it also, however the strip I have gotten doesn't seem to work with my chosen controller so I have had to improvise a solution (bought some cheap rope light from bunnings it will do) and for this I had to power inject at the end of each string of 100 5v lights otherwise I would have had a lot off wiring and 50 led strings which would have done my head in. Now I have to work out ho to run my 12v fans in the control box so I have a step up converter which I am hoping will step the 5v up to 12v for the 12v fans.
Morol of the story, just because someone suggests that you look at 5v over and above 12v doesn't mean you need to believe them, they are more than likely in the I love 5v camp so want everyone to use 5v. I will admit I am in the I love 12v camp, but honestly having both 12v and 5v side by side I can't see any difference and I can normally pick stuff like that.
Use what YOU are comfortable with don't let someone else tell you what to use, this hobby is all about having fun and putting on the display that YOU want to put on. Yes you have left it a bit late and the suppliers tend to be busier this time of year so may take 1 or 2 or 3 weeks to get your order so you might only have a short lived display but if you are happy with it then go for it.
As for an alternative supplier I have used Ben Brown Found on this forum for my 12v nodes for my Mega tree and I found him very helpful and never had an issue. I have also used Ray for my 12v Pixicles and had 3 different orders all custom made and all custom made different from each other hahaha.
Good luck and sorry this turned into a bit of a mega post much like most of our trees lol.
Kitman
Full time elf
i13 said:
You always turn these into a 5v versus 12v thread, perhaps just direct people to the 5v vs 12v post where people can read and judge for themselves which way they want to go.
For nodes the only disadvantage of 5V is the power injection. Your nodes are all in a small area so it shouldn't be a big problem. It just means that you might need to run a couple of extra cables back to the power supply for the star and your power cables might need to be thicker than for 12V pixels. Each snowflake may need its own cable or you could have them sharing thicker ones. You can't run all 200 nodes for the snowflakes end-to-end without injection.
I agree with uncledan saying that 12V is easier to work with but it stands out more with the 30mA version. I admit that I only have the 5V ones but that's because I have seen this issue come up on the forums multiple times. This thread is a well documented example https://auschristmaslighting.com/forums/index.php/topic,7420.0.html
I would never make a 12V node megatree. It's a large number of nodes in a small area. Voltage drop happens over distances and a 5V string of 47 pixels won't need powering at both ends but I'd probably do it anyway to be sure.
I do have both 5V and 12V strip and they're both great for their own purposes.
Opinions vary and I agree with Kitman saying to choose the one that suits your preferences.
I agree with uncledan saying that 12V is easier to work with but it stands out more with the 30mA version. I admit that I only have the 5V ones but that's because I have seen this issue come up on the forums multiple times. This thread is a well documented example https://auschristmaslighting.com/forums/index.php/topic,7420.0.html
I would never make a 12V node megatree. It's a large number of nodes in a small area. Voltage drop happens over distances and a 5V string of 47 pixels won't need powering at both ends but I'd probably do it anyway to be sure.
I do have both 5V and 12V strip and they're both great for their own purposes.
Opinions vary and I agree with Kitman saying to choose the one that suits your preferences.
I have used many sources for my xmas stuff, I just go where I can get what i want at the price I am willing to pay. I have used Ben Brown, Ray Wu and a host of other suppliers, at the end of the day they are all Chinese made sometimes you get better quality that others.
I also have 5v, 12v and 30v items.
As far as leaving it too late.
It is very late and I am worried i won't get my display up now, But if you already have a plan in place, then you can spend the time waiting by measuring and cutting all of your cables, making the supports etc for any props and syncing what you already know you are going to have. As you spend each night wiring the stuff that you get, you spend your daylight hours putting it up
Easy...
I also have 5v, 12v and 30v items.
As far as leaving it too late.
It is very late and I am worried i won't get my display up now, But if you already have a plan in place, then you can spend the time waiting by measuring and cutting all of your cables, making the supports etc for any props and syncing what you already know you are going to have. As you spend each night wiring the stuff that you get, you spend your daylight hours putting it up
Easy...
As stated, this was not my intention and I was simply pointing out a flaw in those particular nodes. The 5V vs 12V post is out of date and was written before Ray started selling so many higher current 12V nodes.Kitman said:
If the original poster wants to know more about the topic then I'll answer the questions.
LightsOn81st
Apprentice elf
- Thread starter
- #28
scamper said:I have used many sources for my xmas stuff, I just go where I can get what i want at the price I am willing to pay. I have used Ben Brown, Ray Wu and a host of other suppliers, at the end of the day they are all Chinese made sometimes you get better quality that others.
I also have 5v, 12v and 30v items.
As far as leaving it too late.
It is very late and I am worried i won't get my display up now, But if you already have a plan in place, then you can spend the time waiting by measuring and cutting all of your cables, making the supports etc for any props and syncing what you already know you are going to have. As you spend each night wiring the stuff that you get, you spend your daylight hours putting it up
This late in the game I certainly do want easy. I work nights so I can dedicate my day to both planning and executing.
Perhaps I should go 12v for the light strips and 5v for the bullet nodes? Is that just making things harder?
I understand that 12v / 5v is a matter of preference to a certain extent, but I happily welcome any knowledge anyone is will to share at will only help me to better understand what I'm working with.
LightsOn81st
Apprentice elf
- Thread starter
- #29
Okay, after some great advice and help in the chat room, I think we've narrowed down my shopping list for lights and accessories I'm picking up from Ray Wu:
I tracked down the Mean Well PSUs on Amazon so I'll save a bunch on shipping there!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0109IMRPS
I have the enclosures (CableGuard CG-1500s) on order and will work out the controller I want to get by tomorrow night (hoping for a Falcon F16v2, but will go with the new HinksPix16 or PixLite if I can't get a Falcon in time).
Let me know what you think of these items!
I tracked down the Mean Well PSUs on Amazon so I'll save a bunch on shipping there!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0109IMRPS
I have the enclosures (CableGuard CG-1500s) on order and will work out the controller I want to get by tomorrow night (hoping for a Falcon F16v2, but will go with the new HinksPix16 or PixLite if I can't get a Falcon in time).
Let me know what you think of these items!
I'm a bit suspicious about that Mean Well and suspect it is a clone due to the price. That said, clones are commonly used around here. Don't have any myself so can't speak for them.
I'd suggest changing the tester to this one due to the larger number of pixels it supports https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/DC12V-WS2811-LED-smart-pixel-controller-With-76-kinds-of-patterns-2048pixels-controlled/701799_32261096741.html
My mistake there as I accidently linked to the wrong one beforre.
Other than that it's looking good. I'm hoping those nodes have the wire thickness and current draw you're hoping for but we discussed that in chat so let's hope Ray gets it right. Mathematically, 50mA nodes with 18AWG wire should go about as far as 30mA ones with 20AWG assuming they start to suffer with the same amount of voltage drop - not sure whether that asssumption is valid. That said, the 30mA ones will have less drop in their lead-in cables and they'll use less power in total. Haven't bench-tested this though and I'm probably overthinking it.
I agree with your decision to buy plenty of connectors. It's surprising how many you'll end up using.
I'd suggest changing the tester to this one due to the larger number of pixels it supports https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/DC12V-WS2811-LED-smart-pixel-controller-With-76-kinds-of-patterns-2048pixels-controlled/701799_32261096741.html
My mistake there as I accidently linked to the wrong one beforre.
Other than that it's looking good. I'm hoping those nodes have the wire thickness and current draw you're hoping for but we discussed that in chat so let's hope Ray gets it right. Mathematically, 50mA nodes with 18AWG wire should go about as far as 30mA ones with 20AWG assuming they start to suffer with the same amount of voltage drop - not sure whether that asssumption is valid. That said, the 30mA ones will have less drop in their lead-in cables and they'll use less power in total. Haven't bench-tested this though and I'm probably overthinking it.
I agree with your decision to buy plenty of connectors. It's surprising how many you'll end up using.