timer on house trips safety switch quite often

David_AVD

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Unless I've missed it, the important question of is it an over current or leakage trip hasn't been answered?

Take not of the little flag window on the RCD. It will change (to red I think) for an leakage trip vs no colour change for over current trip.

You need to understand why it tripped before getting into changing breakers, etc.
 

the grinch

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scamper said:
Fasteddy said:
Fridges are renowned for causing accumulated RCD trips and is a big reason why they have their own circuit in modern houses
I spend way too much on xmas lights to able to afford a modern house :eek:

yeah tottally understand scamp our house was new 23 yrs ago and still always spending around house and the xmas lights she is still buying stuff for this year has got big ideas for me! I have asked for a little break but will see ? Happy wife they say lol
 

the grinch

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David_AVD said:
Unless I've missed it, the important question of is it an over current or leakage trip hasn't been answered?

Take not of the little flag window on the RCD. It will change (to red I think) for an leakage trip vs no colour change for over current trip.

You need to understand why it tripped before getting into changing breakers, etc.

Hi David no never get the red flag wich I believe would indicate earth leakage or short
 

David_AVD

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OK, that's a good starting point. Putting your lights onto their own dedicated circuit would almost certainly help.
 

the grinch

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So yeah just has been frustrating whole idea was to be able to be out and lights could come on automatically but cannot trust ! Although xmas night rushed home from sister inlaws as she wanted to do xmas this year was good but needed to leave early to ensure lightshow came on guess what turn the corner sure enough was on ! Was extremely hot here in adelaide xmas day ! My observation during period was that in warmer weather was faultless just cooler nights would trip . My thoughts is warmer weather produces more resistance ? I have seven 12v 33a psu s running plus couple 12v downlights used as spots lots of blinkys few blowup features and couple other bits electrician was confident was plenty of power for our needs as display was mostly up and explained our needs .
 

fasteddy

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the grinch said:
My observation during period was that in warmer weather was faultless just cooler nights would trip . My thoughts is warmer weather produces more resistance ? I have seven 12v 33a psu s running plus couple 12v downlights used as spots lots of blinkys few blowup features and couple other bits electrician was confident was plenty of power for our needs as display was mostly up and explained our needs .
Im starting to think its no an overload situation then, because normally in warmer weather you would experience more trips than in cooler weather. What may be happening is that cooler air may have more moisture in it and as all electrical equipment will leak some amount of current then the accumulated effect of the current leakage from all the devices coupled with additional moisture in the air may cause this to trip out.

But with heat then the resistance goes up which means the current also slightly increases and the thermal cooling of the Circuit breaker is decreased.

The best way is to use a process of elimination to find out what the issue is and remove different controllers/power supplies/appliances from the circuit to see whare it runs stable and then work from there to find the cause.
 

orchidman33

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Hi all.
I maybe rather late on this one but there will be others with the same problem. As a sparky,worked on the tools in both countries for a total of over 30 years and then technical support for major manufacturer.
The issue seems to me that this setup (rcbo) is wrong for this situation.I would suggest a a rccb of type B (because of the DC load ) plus a 20 or 25A D curve mcb.
The D curve mcb is designed to with stand the current rushing in when first powered up. If the red flag was coming up each time or regularly, then I would suspect one or more of the power supplies having a sizeable leakage current.
 

deanneat

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Okeees, lets break this down - RCD, ELCB, Safety switches are a device that measures the current flowing through a coil and they measure the current flowing back from the neutral - if there is an imbalance it will trip - some call this Earth Leakage
Think of it this way - 4 jiggies in should have 4 jiggies out so +4 + -4 = 0 the safety switch is balanced and wont trip, if 1 jiggy leaks to earth, then you have an imbalance, 5mA imbalance the device will open in 40 milliseconds

So - it will measure the current flow and if balanced it will stay on (no Earth leakage)
it also measures how much current is being consumed - and if it exceeds it's rating it will trip (overcurrent trip) - yours is 20Amps (standard for 2.5mm T&E TPS) with a fault rating of 3kA (this means the RCD can only handle 3000A for a bees dick of a second - This rating is for an electrician to work out how far from the Distribution substation you are and what the calculated fault current is)

Sooooo fault find - turn it all on with nothing plugged into the power outlets - this is vital as RCD wiring separates the neutral from the MEN in the switchboard - meaning it will only measure the current flow in that specific circuit. if there is something plugged in and it has a neutral to earth fault - it will cause the RCD to trip, so UNPLUG everything on the circuit. If the circuit trips, you need an electrician - 2 things could be wrong, broken RCD or insulation has broken down and your circuit is faulty

Now assuming this is all good - then you need to start plugging things in - one at a time and leave it for while. You might find 1 thing is causing your problem - might be easier replacing that bit....... if you have all your power supplies in and it is happy - load it up

my 5v supply can draw 5amps @ 240V - meaning 4 fully loaded will be the limit for the RCD - it will stay on, but the RCD will heat up and finally trip (this is where the fault curve works)

hope this makes sense.......

you might have to split this circuit into 2 if you are overloading it :)
you will have to replace a power supply if it trips it


goodluck
 
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the grinch

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Sorry for the late response and thankyouse for everyone s valuable advice much appreciated
We haven't fixed the above mentioned problem as yet but are in the process again as such !
We just put up with the problem again last season and carried on but mind you was very nerve racking especially on opening night when I have to manually start the show and have too flick the switch a couple of times to get running! With an awaiting audience of possibly 100 ! Geez
I was smart enough to change all my networking rpis modems etc etc too inside house and was running 24/7 so no crashes was a big relief !
As thats not fun for daddy at all !
So anyways due too more renovations actuated by my beautiful wife . Have had the electrician back for other reasons .but has had a look at the information provided and apparently the d curve stuff is very expensive and he is doing further inquiries at the moment also im wanting an electronic type of timer as the analogue type we have is a pain due too the amount of power outages we get here especially when we are supposed to be the most expensive state for electricity on earth !
When we set up in September for novemberish start due to our xmas pageant starup he is going to run a few tests too see whats going on .
But on the other hand he has suggested also apparently the other light community of hydroponic growers of the maryjane or tomatoes if you know what I mean !
They apparently have setups similarly to factories to start machines in a consecutive sequence to stop the great insurge of current !
So according to my electrician these control type boxes are very common in the herb growing industry (if you know what I mean! )
He is on the lookout for us as he has had to disassemble a few setups over the years in rental properties !
Or has suggested we go to hydro shop ! An yeah I rather not !
But alternately it maybe something we can stumble upon in our local cash converters or second hand shop !
So yeah interesting!
 

Roosta

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Just my 2 cents mate...

If you are going to go to the effort to try to find a fan-dangle consecutive start up relay machine and then pay him to wire it up for you, then why not just get him to do a small upgrade in your switchboard, run a couple of new circuits out to the powerpoints for the blinky and put each circuit on its own RCBO.. Any decent sparky worth their licence should have been able to suggest this and I would be surprised if it wasnt the most cost effective option.. Tell him to use decent quality Type A RCBO’s and bobs your uncle..

Then add a battery backup timer, and a 4pole contactor and switch the circuits all on and off together if you must have a time switch.. If it was me I would just go buy a few plug in wifi controlled gpo outlets and set them up to be the timer..
 

David_AVD

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Upgrading the meter box to a separate RCBO per circuit and installing a couple of extra circuits was a worthwhile exercise for me. These days having just one or two RCDs to cover all circuits can be a real pain.
 

bpratt

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When I owner built my house, I put a separate RCBO circuit in each and pretty much every room !!

Cost a bit more, but most of the cost was in extra 2C+E.... used around 2Km of it in my house ! :)
 
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