DeeJai
Is that Magic Smoke?!?
and the reason for your repost of a quote?
"The Great Crash of 2013" a.k.a. The Future of ACL site hosting
- Thread starter AlexB
- Start date
caffeine
Full time elf
Here Here Matt.
Additionally let's not believe that backups are the sole responsibility of the hosting provider either, as Matt has painfully learned recently it would seem.
Switching hosting providers is most definitely an option, but as an ex-sysadmin for an ISP this may be simply a wake up call for a regular site back-up schedule to the admins of the site which would solve much of the underlying concern.
I for one am happy to contribute if the site requires it and uses it correctly. I'm also happy for it to be running for free. I think what everyone is a bit panicked about is that they've realised how much the community relies on the site contributed in the site and we need to work together to make sure it's safe, wherever that might be.
Additionally let's not believe that backups are the sole responsibility of the hosting provider either, as Matt has painfully learned recently it would seem.
Switching hosting providers is most definitely an option, but as an ex-sysadmin for an ISP this may be simply a wake up call for a regular site back-up schedule to the admins of the site which would solve much of the underlying concern.
I for one am happy to contribute if the site requires it and uses it correctly. I'm also happy for it to be running for free. I think what everyone is a bit panicked about is that they've realised how much the community relies on the site contributed in the site and we need to work together to make sure it's safe, wherever that might be.
Benslights
Dedicated elf
totally agree with you matt
If we need funding would advertisements be an option (sorry everyone but there may be no alternative)? Could generous elves have the option of no ads?
We would probably get less new members if they need to pay so a trial period might help if we must make donations compulsory.
I would donate but I share Matt's uncertainty in reply 29.
We would probably get less new members if they need to pay so a trial period might help if we must make donations compulsory.
I would donate but I share Matt's uncertainty in reply 29.
caffeine
Full time elf
I'd hate to see it become ad-based. The only place that I've seen do that well is Whirlpool where only the non-logged in users from google viewing the archive threads see ads.
I think that people have been misunderstood. I am soo greatful that Harrison has been hosting for free, Do I think that it is fair that all of this "Crash" has fallen on his shoulders, NO. I have offered to chip in and pay some $ towards bigger/stable hosting etc because I am so thankful for all the help and support that I have received here with my display.
We are just trying to make ACL an even better place for our hobby, That is all. We are not here to make enemies. LONG LIVE ACL I say! And thankyou Harrison for all your work hosting and getting back up and running.
We are just trying to make ACL an even better place for our hobby, That is all. We are not here to make enemies. LONG LIVE ACL I say! And thankyou Harrison for all your work hosting and getting back up and running.
AlexB
New elf
- Thread starter
- #38
Re: "The Great Crash of 2013" a.k.a. The Future of ACL site hosting
Fair play Harrison, however (and to everyone else as well) - first please recall I didn't start this as a Harrison-bashing session, and in fact I praised the work you have done. As soon as I was made aware of your arrangements by LL, I stated that in my reply, and then refocussed the discussion on whether people would be willing to pay to host it - hence the addition of the poll.
You say ACL requires it's own dedicated server... But that is not where it is right now, is it? Because you wouldn't be paying $6000 a year for a server JUST for ACL, and not charging for it, would you? So it is obviously hosted on a server along with other services.
So this is your acknowledgement that (while you're doing a very nice thing for ACL) the site really needs something better than what you can provide.
I want to be clear that I am not for one minute blaming Harrison, or suggesting that he has not done anything but his best for ACL.
But that is the intent of my post and this thread - as has been stated - whether the fault lies with the host, the admin, the programmer or the interwebz faeries, the fact is that losing this much data is a giant wake up call to everyone that something needs to be done about it - and it also shows many people who are willing to contribute to keep it up and running.
You cannot make paying for access to be mandatory - or no new members will come - this I alluded to in my post also.
I think the only thing that needs to be done is ensure that however the money is paid, it cannot be misappropriated.
Harrison Kohn said:
Fair play Harrison, however (and to everyone else as well) - first please recall I didn't start this as a Harrison-bashing session, and in fact I praised the work you have done. As soon as I was made aware of your arrangements by LL, I stated that in my reply, and then refocussed the discussion on whether people would be willing to pay to host it - hence the addition of the poll.
You say ACL requires it's own dedicated server... But that is not where it is right now, is it? Because you wouldn't be paying $6000 a year for a server JUST for ACL, and not charging for it, would you? So it is obviously hosted on a server along with other services.
So this is your acknowledgement that (while you're doing a very nice thing for ACL) the site really needs something better than what you can provide.
I want to be clear that I am not for one minute blaming Harrison, or suggesting that he has not done anything but his best for ACL.
But that is the intent of my post and this thread - as has been stated - whether the fault lies with the host, the admin, the programmer or the interwebz faeries, the fact is that losing this much data is a giant wake up call to everyone that something needs to be done about it - and it also shows many people who are willing to contribute to keep it up and running.
You cannot make paying for access to be mandatory - or no new members will come - this I alluded to in my post also.
I think the only thing that needs to be done is ensure that however the money is paid, it cannot be misappropriated.
Benslights
Dedicated elf
so how much are you willing to donate then AlexB????
multicast
Senior elf
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 715
ok, i'll put my money where my mouth is, so this can move beyond a hypothetical discussion. I'm prepared to under-right the difference between what other members contribute and what the actual cost of seeing the service moved to a professionally run, high reliability and suitably run hosting service for a period of 12months. ( Such as Googles Compute Engine )
I doubt, i'd actually end up contributing much more than what would be "my fair share", because many many of the members here are actually very generous and community minded. Theres a few other provisos, like the domain name would need to be held by some kind of entity that coud'nt hold that over the sites head.
I have *no* desire to have any moderator, administrator or other rights. I just want to see this sorted.
I doubt, i'd actually end up contributing much more than what would be "my fair share", because many many of the members here are actually very generous and community minded. Theres a few other provisos, like the domain name would need to be held by some kind of entity that coud'nt hold that over the sites head.
I have *no* desire to have any moderator, administrator or other rights. I just want to see this sorted.
buzzdude
Full time elf
Re: "The Great Crash of 2013" a.k.a. The Future of ACL site hosting
Would it be wise for the site admins and Harrison to get together and discuss options and come back to the forum?
Would it be wise for the site admins and Harrison to get together and discuss options and come back to the forum?
AlexB
New elf
- Thread starter
- #42
Whilst i'm not sure if your question is curiosity or antagonism, however I have nothing to hide, and as my vote in the poll reflects, I think $10 a year is quite reasonable.
There are 7442 registered members on the forums (possibly a couple more before the crash)
If we allow for many members that aren't active, or regular - and say only 10% of the members gave that same amount, we'd have more than enough to cover the entire server cost Harrison currently pays himself.
Even if 10% is a little generous, some members have offered up more than that.
Obviously this has riled a few people up - it wasn't meant to upset anyone - just to start a dialog on the possibles... if we're going to start being antagonistic, then maybe we should just leave it at that?
Of course this all hinges on the owner of the domain agreeing to everything. And from what I understand, that may be difficult at this point - so the alternative would be to just register a new domain, and startup a new site on a reliable server... but this won't happen unless many of the key members are willing (who know who they are).
There are 7442 registered members on the forums (possibly a couple more before the crash)
If we allow for many members that aren't active, or regular - and say only 10% of the members gave that same amount, we'd have more than enough to cover the entire server cost Harrison currently pays himself.
Even if 10% is a little generous, some members have offered up more than that.
Obviously this has riled a few people up - it wasn't meant to upset anyone - just to start a dialog on the possibles... if we're going to start being antagonistic, then maybe we should just leave it at that?
Of course this all hinges on the owner of the domain agreeing to everything. And from what I understand, that may be difficult at this point - so the alternative would be to just register a new domain, and startup a new site on a reliable server... but this won't happen unless many of the key members are willing (who know who they are).
buzzdude
Full time elf
Only a question, I didn't mean it be anything bad, sorry, nothing else was meant by it.
Just my 2 cents worth. There are a grand total of 43 Generous Elfs not including any Staff or overlapping classes that overlap when they have donated to the site. Not only are these donors responsible for funding the site to date (if you don't include Harrisons generous hosting) but they are also many of the more prolific posters on the site and as such are really the backbone of the site. It is all very well to speculate on the future, the cause of the failure, the changes necessary to prevent future failures but realistically it is the staff of this site governed by the will of a few dozen ( ??? ) vocal members who will decide what happens. All of the staff have lives, most are probably still running displays and are currently in holiday mode and between Ryan and Harrison the site is back up and running. ACL is a great resource and it helps out thousands of people every year and it is entirely run voluntarily.
Before all the speculators get too carried away think about what you are going to type and think of the impact it has on Ryan in particular as he is the poor bugger responsible for most if the IT side of the site and also for Harrison who has been flamed relentlessly over the last week. The site crashed and info was lost but the site is still here and it hasn't stopped thousands of people with their displays. Have a chill pill, give Ryan some thanks for the countless hours he puts into the IT side of the site and thank Harrison as the changes to the hosting from it's previous host were dramatic.
*rant over*
Before all the speculators get too carried away think about what you are going to type and think of the impact it has on Ryan in particular as he is the poor bugger responsible for most if the IT side of the site and also for Harrison who has been flamed relentlessly over the last week. The site crashed and info was lost but the site is still here and it hasn't stopped thousands of people with their displays. Have a chill pill, give Ryan some thanks for the countless hours he puts into the IT side of the site and thank Harrison as the changes to the hosting from it's previous host were dramatic.
*rant over*
oldmanfathertime1000
Computers, music, audio, video, electronics
All this talk is fine & dandy. But until this site is removed from what appears to be held by one person, it will never get any where. A decision must be made to pay that person off & get him out of the picture completely, or re-start this ACL site with a different name & a group owner-ship to run it. All thi running around in circles is gonna get us back at thtarting line...A group owner-ship can make the dicesion to stay on the present server or move to a different one. The crash that happened can happen on other servers as well....
This cannot continue to go on like this with a real chance of final failure of a great forum.
Some one or a group needs to jump in & make some decisions if there is a chance to continue this ACL or whatever it can be called working.
It will not matter what the name will be. People will find it & it will be as big & great a forum as always...
ACL is only a name that stands for that at this time but any name can re-place it....
You build it & they will come..
We need to get past this petty BS....& do something to really solve the problem...
This cannot continue to go on like this with a real chance of final failure of a great forum.
Some one or a group needs to jump in & make some decisions if there is a chance to continue this ACL or whatever it can be called working.
It will not matter what the name will be. People will find it & it will be as big & great a forum as always...
ACL is only a name that stands for that at this time but any name can re-place it....
You build it & they will come..
We need to get past this petty BS....& do something to really solve the problem...